I have the 1k,4k,8k,12k naniwa hones but I doubt I could sharpen my kitchen and pocket knives with them. What hone should I order. 800, 320???? also any tips on honing the knives would be appreciated
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I have the 1k,4k,8k,12k naniwa hones but I doubt I could sharpen my kitchen and pocket knives with them. What hone should I order. 800, 320???? also any tips on honing the knives would be appreciated
I use my Naniwa 1k, seems to work well, and have yet to go up to 5k which people suggest should really do a great job. I don't see any reason you can't use your Naniwas on kitchen knives. Are they in bad enough shape that you need a lower grit?
If so, I like the EZ Lap diamond stones for good general use.
Around 1k is quite nice for starting out with kitchen knives, leaves a decent edge and doesn't remove metal too fast. For rougher work I reach for my well worn DMT 325.
I found paying attention to the burrs helpful, raise a burr on the 1K, flip over, repeat. Not required in most circumstances but if you have a knife with good steel it's nice to take it to shaving sharp.
a 1k stone works well. I use a King 1k because it seems to cut a lot faster than my Naniwa SS. Some knives do really well if I finish them with a BBW. This is reserved for mostly my thinner bladed Santoku and Gyotu blades.
I use a king 1K and finish with a king 6K. Works great.
How do you determine and keep the proper bevel angle while honing, especially with curved blades?
I use a Norton 1k initially or when it is bad and finish/refresh with a translucent Arkansas.
As for keeping the bevel angle - practice, practice, practice - but they do make honing guides to hold blades.
I agree. With a 1k you can push hard with a knife if you need to, unlike a razor which will flex under pressure. A translucent ark seems a little overkill but I have done it before! If you want a little extra mojo, strop it but don't use your cordovan razor hone. If you strop knives, you'll eventually cut the strop.
I have comments from two chefs in two countries that they do not like to finish knives over 5k grit, they feel kitchen knives need a little "tooth" to cut their best.
So I'd suggest a 1-5k progression for normal maintenance honing.
Now I am a JNat guy, and JNats don't have grit ratings assigned to them. In the JNat world, I like to finish kitchen knives with a suita, which is considered for the most part, a woodworking or tool hone. Suitas cut fast. A Hakka or aoto are also good.
As far as angle goes, yes just practice. Aside from mechanical guides which I've always thought were a bit gimmicky, you just have to practice your technique.
I've also liked to separate my knife hones from razor hones. Knives are harder on hones and wear them more quickly because you use more pressure and the blades are larger. Knives really don't need as fine and nuanced an edge as a razor, so get a cheaper set of hones for the knives. If you find crossovers in use, that's a plus.
Cheers, Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by criswilson10
Finally. I was looking for an excuse to buy a chosera 1k for razors - now I have it. I can't be mixing stones!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
as a butcher I used a king 1/6 combo stone and had great success .to find your angle set it edge down..yes edge down and split the angle by 1/2 and then repeat that to find a sturdy bevel.salute and use a drawing motion on water stones with knives.use a cork to deburr your edge and find any flat spots.flat spots mean you need to thin your edge and main bevel to achieve a good sturdy edge.ymmv.
I took your advice and used the 1000k and a couple knives came out really sharp. The rest were in bad shape and will require a much more course stone, maybe a 320 or 500 but I am going to try my DMT 320 and see what happens. Thx for the helpQuote:
Originally Posted by RoyalCake
Agree a 1k for most daily use and a 4k or 5K occasionally. Usually a 1k is all you need, but if you collect knives and do some edge restoration, a 325 and 600 diamond plates make quick work of it, finish on a 1k.
I use a King or Norton 1k and Chosera for razors.
You could use the same stone for both, razors on one side, knives the other.
I mark the edge of the stone with a sharpie so they do not get used with razors. A knife point can scar a synthetic stone face, nothing that can’t be lapped, seperate stones are easier.
Inking the bevel and practice will teach you to free hand, there are several good videos on hand honing knives, it does take some practice, but once you get it down and calibrate a good TPT, you can put an edge on a knife in a few minutes.
Attachment 180856
Hi cubancigar2000,
This may be useful. https://ia600400.us.archive.org/8/it...rpen__text.pdf
Mike
Thx, that is helpfulQuote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
I use a Tormek jig/wheel. The grit is 1k. The secret to the finished knife being super sharp is the angle being held dead rigid.
From there a diamond steel maintains the edge.
I use a DMT D8C 325. I might be one of the few, but I don't like my kitchen knives to be extremely sharp.
same here and a diamond steel everytime I use a knife.Unlike a razor, your cutting or chopping on hard surfaces, to sharp is not a good thing for kitchen knives,JMOQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I use my Shapton glass stones 220-16k then to a loaded strop, finally onto a leather strop that I use for my razors. As long as I don't let my wife get ahold of the knives they stay extremely sharp. They slice meat with no effort, and vegetables forget about it.
Naniwa super stones work very well on kitchen knives (well all knives really apart from the ceramic abominations), its what i bought mine for originally :)
IMO for kitchen knives you only need 3 stones, a DMT 325 (for sorting out chips and setting bevels) a 1k and a 5k (optional but i personally think it does make the edge significantly better). As has already been said it is nice to have a bit of a "toothy" edge on kitchen knives and anything over 5k i have found to a negative effect in practical use. The exception to this for me at least is on a fileting knife, which i finish with an 8k SS. YMMV
As for getting the bevel angle, IMO the angle itself isn't all that important (within reason of cause). What is more important is maintaining a constant and consistent angle along the blade. There are all sorts of gadgets and gizmos out there to help with this and ive tried lots of them. Personally i think they are a waste of money.
To get a good angle for knives, hold the knife so that it is at 90 degrees to the stone, then half the angle and half it again. This gives a bevel in the 20-25 degree range which will suit most knives. What i do then is put my thumb against the spine of the blade and remember where the spine touches. From there on its really more about muscle memory. Remember dont get too hung up on the actual angle just concentrate on keeping a constant and consistent angle :)
Great info; thanks#
It depends if you are sharpening a european type knife or a Japanese type knife. European kitchen knives/butcher knives tend to have softer steel, a coarse stone (300-500), 1K stone and maybe a 2-3K stone work well, and maybe a strop or steel for touching up. Japanese kitchen knives can use the same coarse stone and 1K stone, and I love the edge off a Rika 5K stropped on bare leather a few times afterwards. Wickedly bitey, but still polished enough to glide thru foods. I often use a 1200 Bester or 1K Medium Ume Nubatama, the Rika 5K and a hakka stone or Yaginoshima Asagi as a finisher for the Japanese knives, depending on what they are used for. Nakiri gets the higher finish, slicing knives like a Suji or a blade that will be seeing a lot of proteins/trimming proteins, I use the lower Hakka or Rika 5K. 15 degrees is what many Japanese knives are sharpened at compared to the 20-25 of the European style. Strops work well on the Japanese knives and ceramic steels are OK, but get a very very fine one and don't use any pressure. Japanese blades are normally thinner at the edge, harder and more fragile compared to a European style knife.
The stones you have now should work fine!
Ok, the first go around was not good. Knives are in really bad shape, no bevel there at all. Next go around I used my DMT course ( 320 ) then progressed on to the 1000k and the knives are looking pretty darn good. They are sharper than I have ever been able to make them and I am sure I will learn a lot as I go. Now that I have the bevel set I feel I can keep them there with the 1000k but I am going to order a 500 or 600 anyway. I think I will use it a lot
I agree 100% with Jimmy had and Pixelfixed. when it comes to the average kitchen knife it makes no sense to use very fine grits stones. Anybody can get excellent results on a 300-400 grits stone. For kitchen knives I use either a Crystolon or an India stone, to refresh the bevel, or sometimes I like to use a Naniwa chosera 400 grit or a Sigma 400 grit and then I finish it on a hard Arkansas or any 1000 grit stone.
