Shaping and bevel setting - Sigma, Binsui or Naniwa?

Hi guys,

I have been reading over a million threads here and am trying to get my brain around which hone(s) makes themost sense for shaping and bevel setting for both razors and potentially knives. I already have a King 1200, Norton 4/8, an Ohira asagi saikokyu and Shuobudani asagi/mizo, and a Hideriyama suita renge on the way (and a DMT220 and some nasty two-tone grey garage oil/water stone in the garage).

I should say that I am trying to make razors, so this is more than normal bevel setting. I have been looking at the Sigma 240 and 1000, Naniwa 400 and 1000, and the Amakusa red and white (binsui) as potential options. I'm also running out of money (and my local supplier's Nani 400 are expensive... may have to ship from US). I also like the look of the JNS series in this range.

I don't have any Japanese knives yet, but I am making a deba-like knife out of O1, which has been shaped so far by the grey brick and DMT220. It was a concave grind, but I may make it into a double bevel, but it's really a chicken bone knife like a triangular cleaver.

Can anyone offer advice in this range, and for this duty?

......well i'd say personally if you are bevel setting the king 1200 is a very good stone, others prefer super stones but it appears you have quite a number of stones on the way.salute and good luck.

Thx! Just the suita on the way. Bad sentence.

I find the King slow, soft and muddy. I was thinking of something harder and faster.

Shapton Ceramic on Glass are the fastest hones other than diamond IMO - expensive but worth it in time savings. You can pick your grit size from 220 to 30,000.

-john

It sounds like what you want to do is what the Japanese sword polishers call “foundation polishing” using an “arato” stone (about 180 grit).

Most of the modern polishers use synthetic stones at this stage. It may be best to go to one of the knife/sword forums and ask the traditional guys what stones they use at this stage. Don Foggs forum and the British blade forum are the ones I use to visit and have a few traditional guys on them.

A course carborundum stone, used with water may be the best bet as it is hard enough not to easily dish and will be fairly fast if you use some pressure.

“The craft of the Japanese sword” and “The art of Japanese sword polishing” are good reads concerning the use of stones to shape and polish blades.

I have several Sigma Power stones and find them incredibly aggressive. Razor honing is about finesse as much as it is about ripping off metal, and a super-aggressive stone will waste a lot of your steel. Best left for chisels and big knives.

Amakusa stones are highly unpredictable and vary greatly in quality. I understand that the Amakusa stones being shipped nowadays are basically the bottom of the barrel, with lots of inclusions and unpredictable grain. It'd be a shame to get one of those big bricks and find it's got a hunk of pumice or something just under the surface.

I absolutely agree about the King being muddy. It's great for kitchen knives, but messy and a little too soft to keep a good razor honing surface. Too much lapping, too much brown mud all over the place.

Have you considered Bester stones? I have them at the 220, 800, 1000 and 1200 grits and find them useful for both knives and razors. Give 'em a good long (at least an hour) soak and they perform very well. They're also very hard, so you don't have to spend much time lapping between uses. I often set bevels on a Bester and then polish on a range of Suehiros up to the Gok20.

Given the weakness of the yen at the moment, it might be a good idea to check the toolsfromjapan site and explore your options.

this gives a quick guide to using stones to shape a blade an links to a suppler of suitable stones.

process of the polishing work

I have been hanging around here reading threads for a while, it seems that the top of the heap for bevel setters is the Chosera. I have Sigma hones but not in the low grits, and when it comes to getting a nice shaving edge I would never use one. I know guys that do, but it just gets me a prickly edge in very few strokes. Kicks but polishing plane irons and chisels though. If I was going to buy a new bevel setter to replace my Norton I'd be all over the Chosera 1000.

+1 on the chosera 1k. I have gone through several bevel setters and it seems to me the chosera is tops.

The suita cuts quickly but is medium-fine. Maybe not really a bevel setter in grit/scratch pattern but cuts so well I think it evened out a big wide bevel I have been fighting with, so perhaps not far off o bevel setter territory. Cool, big stone!

Btw, the Choseras are on my Xmas list.

Chosera 600

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atchbo

Hi guys,


Can anyone offer advice in this range, and for this duty?

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When I use a synthetic stone, the favorite is a Chosera 800. I only use it when I have had to breadknife a blade and need to start a new bevel. For a natural stone in a progression the only thing I have found to work as fast and similar to the Chosera, is the Odori Nagura.

Attachment 183425
Odori Nagura

A very smooth and fast cutter, similar to Botan but more agressive, that leaves a nice kasumi (haze) on the bevel. A great stone. Both stones will quickly set the bevel, and remove chips, on any razor. If you are only refreshing the bevel or coming from a dull edge, most 1-2k stones will work well. For a natural edge, use a higher grit stone with a lower grit nagura (Botan), then onto other naguras such as Mejiro or Tenjyou. Lastly use a finishing stone and Tomo nagura.