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Hey, I'm looking into one day replacing my c12k and get an actual quality stone. Any recomendations? My progression is all synthetic containing a chosera 1k, norton 4/8, and shapton glass sweet 16, and possibly looking one day into a complete shapton glass system (fingers crossed).
Like all other natural stones, the quality of each type can vary greatly. There actually are some very good Chinese hones. There also are crap Japanese hones. Eschers have all been assessed by the company and are all good hones, but they too vary on the higher end.
You can either buy a particular stone at the recommendation of someone you trust or you can take a gamble and see what you get.
Another alternative would be the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. That would be a predictable high end option.
+1 with Utopian.
Also on the Shapton Glass, a complete set is around $1,400. I went the direction you're pining for. Really after your Chosera 1k, the Shapton 3, 6, 8, and 16k are really all you need. For me the 16k is optional since I like to finish on the Gokumyo 20k or a Jnat after the 8k.
:gl:
Howard :)
Naniwa 12 k is great. Zulu gray, 3 slate hones on ebay from england are also. Black arkie. Many ways to go
So where did you use your Chinese stone in the progression?
You probably could have left it out of your synthetic progression and been just fine with the 1/4/8/ and jump to the 16 finisher.
I would first try to grit rate the Chinese, I doubt it is over 8K and then see just how aggressive the 16K is. I would expect the 16k is very aggressive and could probably re-bevel set a pre-hone without too many laps, by itself.
Bottom line, I think you have a fine synthetic progression and really do not need anything more. You can add a 12K super stone, but really don’t need it. You can also lap the Chinese and possibly improve it a bit, but not finer than you 16K.
As said, were I you, I would go for a 20K Gokuymo finisher.
If you go to an all Shapton progression, you will not pick up anything, except possibly a little speed.
If you want laser straight edges for not a lot of money, look at lapping film, if you just want something different.
What I find interesting even after all these years and new stones, a 1/4/8k and finisher combo is hard to beat.
As said before, the Naniwa SS 12k is great.
If you want more Shapton glass stones you should probably get them sooner rather than later because from what I've read, it seems like Shapton has stopped making them and the ones that are in stock at various vendors at the moment could be the last ones.
:cry::cry: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxxer
I hear you, I've got an 8k glass coming in the mail but if it turns out to be true that they're completely discontinued then that's a shame because I think I might've wanted to get a few of the other grits as well some time in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8
I may have to get a 4k & 8k as a Christmas present to myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxxer
try an apache strata, I finish on one and love it. I bought 3 of the 12k china bricks and never will own another. the shave quality was awful. not so on the strata, the reds are around 9 to10k and the stratas are 11 to 12k they are nats and vary some but if you do get a bad one terry will replace it to your satisfaction. in a nat you may get a crappy stone but how many makers will make it good? I have finished up my razors off a bbw to coti on the apache and the result is a very good shave. lots use the bevel set, 4k 8k to apache and get good results, pretty sure terry has one that will fit in your budget, if not contact him and ask for something that will.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8
Im surprised. I have had 2 one i gave to a friend and the other i still have. I have used Naguras on it and without and have had fine shaves. I bought mine at woodcraft. I know its a natural and they very. But having been through 3 i would think you would find a decent one. With that said i have moved on to other stones. Im a hone slutQuote:
Originally Posted by kn4wd
I've had three C12K's with one of them being my go to finisher. They were/are very different from each other. I would guess they ranged from 8k-12k+. My main one is VERY dark and has some of the silvery stripes in it, the worst one was lighter grey in color. All natural stones vary except for maybe the branded Escher's which were tested and graded
Ahhh yes the C12K or guangxi or Phig. An excellent stone. I sold all of my synthetics except for my 1k bevel setter and only use my Guangxi. That's it. It takes me 20-30 minutes after a bevel set to put a smooth and sharp edge that easily delivers a BBS a with no irritation.
There are many other fine stones/hones out there. Good luck in your search and if you are looking for a home for your C12K I would be more than happy to give you my address if you PM me. I would give it a great home. Lol.
the three I had they went to the landfill, I put them where they deserved to be. I want to go forward from a coti not backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel
I just might take you up on that one day, but for now Just keep it till I can learn all I can from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel
Euclid,
I did get to test out the c12k like you mentioned before. What I learned was posted on a previous thread I had right here:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ml#post1422259
Jnat, it's the "nice" version of the phig. I'd go for quality and let the price dictate the size rather than go with size and let the price dictate the quality.
So for now, just drop the Chinese from the progression, you don’t need it and it is adding nothing to your edge. It is just confusing the process because the grit is not as uniform as the known synthetic stones.
It is why we usually recommend learning on a pure synthetic progression. Once you can easily replicate consistent, keen edges, then consider experimenting with Natural stones as finishers.
As you have learned, few stone are as consistent and high grit as a 12 or 16k synthetic.
And that, it is not all about sharp and high grit, for razor honing, comfort plays an even larger part.
Keep experimenting, pushing your stones to their max potential… keep learning.
Since you're just about using synthetics exclusively, I'd sure jump on the SG20K as a finisher. It's a heck of a hone. Fast, easy, and very effective. I use Naniwa SS through 12k with the SG20K to finish and get really nice shaves as a result.
Don't underestimate the C12k! Especially if you have a good one. There are less than a few stones that can give better edges from a good C12k. For naturals, you'll have to pay a pretty buck for them, and for man made stones, they leave a harsh edge. I started with a C12k, tried just about every natural commercially available the last two centuries, and some of the finest man made, and I'm still returning every now and then to my C12k.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Cheers, Steve
The Naniwa SuperStones are a great way to go. I know they're not natural, but they are reliable in their grit rating and give a great edge. They are also relatively inexpensive too.
What do you want from your edges. You already have a high grit finisher in the 16k. Sharper would be the gokumyo 20k or a jnat. Smoother would be coticules, eshers etc. So what you are looking for depends what direction to go
I would definitely recommend. The apache stone.. It's a natural finisher that doesn't require naguras or Tomos just water.. You just do all l your strokes on water.. It's a great option..
I'd keep the C12K. One thing I know, is a you'll get better at honing as time passes. I'm not saying you're bad now, it's just everybody gets better as they practice. I've had the C12K for years and it's a great finisher. I have sold many razors using it as the finisher. I can't tell the difference in a razor that's been honed with my JNS lvl 5 koppa or the C12K. The end game is the shave, and they are very similar. If you decide to go with a JNS be sure you buy quality (no lines or defects) and you'll be happy with the purchase. Hope you find a great stone.
Biggreg
I'd keep it, too, if it's a good one. First phig I ever got was a really good one and I didn't know it. I've bought three more since and none are as good. The edge off of a good one should be indistinguishable from a good hard and even japanese razor stone.