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Hello all,
I have been struggling with my honing. I have a king 1k stone and a Norton 4/8k. A lot of the problem is my technique I am sure, but I am also starting to wonder if my hone is part of the issue. My Norton 4k side has an odd gritty feeling, even more abrasive feeling than the king 1k I have. I have lapped it many times, with both wet/dry paper and an DMT diamod plate. Is this normal for the Norton?
This has been brought up before. Yes, The Norton 4k will feel like it is 'grittier' than some lower grit stones. Difference is makeup of the hone, not the grit. Mine feels same. Great hone, BTW!
a thought i had was have you chamfered the edges of your hones? If you are lifting or lowering your razor on the strokes it is possible you are catching the edges occasionally. Just an idea. :)
The 4K side of my 4/8 Norton was gritty/rough until I lapped a substantial amount off.
And if I am recalling correctly this was not a surprise - as in: "expect to have to lap down 1/16" - 1/8" to get to the good stuff" was one of the cautions.
Once you get there the change is dramatic - you won't believe its the same hone.
And I'm with sharptonn - it is a great hone...
This was my experience. Get past all that grit and you will be very happy with the hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJC
I'm glad I got a coticule.
Different animal all together. I have one of those too, but I'll keep my norton, much faster for what it's designed to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
I did take the edges off to prevent any problems catching the edge, I learned that the hard way:) I have lapped a good amount of the hone down, it lost the initial gritty feeling that were on both sides of the hone but still feels like it has some "graininess" on the 4k side only. I didn't mention this in my initial post, but the 8k side feels as smooth as glass.
Lap it some more, you won't be disappointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie1980
the 4k side of my Norton still feels grainy also compared to the Nani 1k, even after some 40 razor honings & maybe 15-20 lappings over the last year odd
it is water hungry compared to the rest of my hones also as the only hone I have that bubbles when first submerged in the tub
There is a much smoother surface below...just waiting for you to mine (lap) down to it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Substance
I remember my stainless steel sink looked like I had dropped a bucket of white paint in it by the time it was over.
I have a problem with the Norton 4k too.
Many times the arm hair shave test was worse after using the 4k.
As a test, I honed just one side of the razor on 4k and looked at the scratch pattern. The 4k side had a much coarser scratch pattern than the 3k side. I lost ground.
The stone has been lapped down 3/16". I could go more; nothing to loose.
I had two of them. First one dulled the bevel I had set on a Norton 1k. This after I had lapped away HALF of the stone without finding anything smooth. I talked to the product engineer at Norton. He said I clearly had a bad one and to return it to the seller as defective. Sent it back to Amazon in exchange for a new one. Lapped away 1/8" of the 4k on it and repeated the dulling of the bevel. Sent it back to Amazon for a refund. Both stones were the 4k/8k combination stones and both had the 4k side produced in Italy. I suggest you take the Norton engineer's advice and send it back. I then bought Naniwa 5k and 8k stones, which are excellent.
I lapped it down another 1/8 inch or so, and it is getting no better. I am toying with returning it, I am going to go down another 1/8in or so and then back to the store it goes!
I pulled my out this evening and the plastic box says: 4000grit made in Italy - 8000grit made in USA
Sorry now that I did not measure it before to get some idea of how much I removed.
Ohhhtay! American, Mexican, and now Italian Norton 4/8's.
Wot's the difference. Some seem disillusioned. Should not be, Norton 4k is notorious for sound and feedback in the beginning, should quieten down as the scratches from the 1k are smoothed. Mine is an old USA made. Are the later ones inferior?
Thoughts?
I have a 4k/8k that's about 6 months old now. 4k side is from Italy, 8k from USA. After cleaning off about 1/16" off of it when I got it, it works just like my older ones that were made in the USA. I've never had any problems with Norton hones, so I hope they get this issue figured out.
Why is it an issue? Sound? Sensation? Performance? I would like to hear. My old 4k is much more audible than my 1k Naniwa.
Still, a 4k through lot's of razors. JMO.
For me it was the sound it made, and the odd scratch pattern on the stone. I can actually see the individual grains after running the blade a couple of times across.
Curious. What hone proceeded this Norton 4k? Scratch patterns should be present at this level, nevermind the stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie1980
"Scratch pattern ON the stone". That sounds weird to me. Do you mean the scratch pattern left on the blade or is it as you wrote. If the hone is scratched up. Take a pic the best you can and post it, and what are you using to lap it with. Unless I am mistaken in my thoughts, then nevermindQuote:
Originally Posted by Ernie1980
I misunderstood. Scratch-patterns are usually referred to as in the bevel. Not the hone. Scratch-patterns upon a clean, freshly-lapped stone can (obviously) mean only one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8
The razor applied to it has scratched it. No fault of the hone, I would think.
I just want to take some variables out of my thought process. Could you detail your honing process. Especially do you use slurry or not. What results in your blade are you seeing that is the problem? What's happening that is making you wonder about the hone?
Or what if what is being used to lap and flatten is scratching the stone? That's what I am wanting to see if that is happening or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
If your lapping it with paper it's the grit from the paper. Same may be true with a Norton lapping stone. I have a 4/8 and shaved off it for a year. Used the Norton lapping stone on it more than half that time until I got a DMT8f and now use a DMT8ef. I love my Nortons and wouldn't trade them for anything else. If you have used other stones you may want to just go through your progression and see how it all ends up. They may feel harsh but they do the job quick for me. 1k 4k 8k then to nani because Norton's don't go any higher.
So I don't have any other 4k - and although very pleased with my results I'm still a honing FNG. And I remember the cautions about the 4K surface on the Norton 4/8 when I bought mine. I expected to see this, a porous surface that felt "open" even when lapped.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
I never tried to hone on it before lapping it down at least 1/8". As in I chamfered it then lapped it to square and re-chamfered. Pencil grid as I proceeded.
And then it just pops out, you rinse the surface and it feels smooth to the touch and it looks flat/smooth at an angle.
It did not take long, but that might have been because I knew starting out that I was going to take at least 1/8" and not just a pencil marks worth...
Some of these sound like they may be more of a problem, as in send them back...
I don't want to take the time to soak and recreate the image I was trying to write about:) Here is my best description: I start with a king 1k, and then move to the Norton 4k. Since the stone is white, you can easily see the metal on the hone as you are honing. What I see is not an even "swipe" on the stone, instead I see little black dots scattered on the surface of the stone. To me is is telling me either the stone is gritty (as my finger tells me) or the surface is uneven from my lapping.
For lapping the stone, I had been using wet/dry paper on a stone finishing plate. (certified flat) I start with 220 grit and finish with 600 grit before attempting to hone. For the sake of eliminating my lapping method as the source of error I lapped it the last time with a DMT diamond plate up to 1200 grit. The stone felt and cut the same way after each different lapping method.
My 4/8 Norton lives in the water. (No other hone could I recommend that for, BTW) The uneven 'swipe' on the stone is created by you. JMHO. If you are attempting to 'straight hone' a razor with a slight smile, you are only messing up the geometry of the razor and wasting hone. Technique could be the answer. Pictures should be forthcoming to enable positive solutions.
Razor, bevel, spine, hone. Explain exactly what you are doing.