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I am conteplating purchasing Naniwa set consisting of 1k,5k, 8k and 12k. My question is are Naniwas two sided. I would like to have the stones that would double as knife sharpening and razor sharpening set. I am specifically talking in 1k and 5k grit. Thank you in advance. Mo
Yes you can lap both sides. Some used to come attached to stands but I have not seen any of these for some time.
To me, the Super Stones are stones that feel like they were made for straight razors. They are consistent, reliable and always produce dependable results. The are definitely softer though and would not be my preference to use for knives. The Chosera's are excellent for knives and as already stated, the Shapton Glass stones work well too.
Have fun.
So if I get 1k and 6k in chosera and the rest in super stone I would be all set? Just to clarify I will dedicate one side of each grit for knife and other for razor use only. I would.not.mind spending extra on shaptons but you can not just flip shaptons amd use the other side , right?
I can't speak about the 5K Superstone, but the 5K Chosera is a terrible investment. Naniwa let a large number of bad 5K stones escape their factory. Trust me, it's not a pleasant thing to see your $140 stone crack and start to crumble after 2 uses. Even if they've improved their process since those stones were made, it would be impossible to guarantee that you got a good one.
At the 5K level, there seem to be a lot of Superstone fans, and I personally like the Suehiro Rika for both razors and knives.
There's no official 6K Chosera. Naniwa does make a very good 6K that happens to look and feel exactly like a chosera but for some reason isn't marketed as one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muamero
You can find them marketed as "Yellow Penguin" or CKtG sells them bafflingly labeled as their "Nubatama Ume 4K". I've got two and I like them a lot.
You can use both sides if you like one for knives and one for razors. But I don't see the point of doing so. It could be because of my inexperience but I would not see it mattering as long as you are lapping and keeping one side flat. But it could be your preference to do so. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Muamero
But in light of above evidence of higher level choseras having problems I would probably also chose the supers if it was my choice. But I went after the shaptons and as long as I keep them flat I use them for both knives and razors (I have the 1,4,8,16k versions)
To build on what UKRob said:
The old(er) Naniwa super stones (usually?/always?) come attached to a base so you can only use one of the sides but Naniwa has fairly recently released the new Naniwa specialty stones that are the new updated Super stones, the ones I've seen do not come attached to a base so you could use both sides.
Yes I meant 5k not 6k. I was then mistakenly under impression that sharpening knives would gauge the stone and render it not suitable for razor sharpening. You are saying as long as I lap them before each use I can use the same side for knives and razors?
Lapping and flattening should take out any gouges that u may make. But of course the softer the stone the more likely the gouges can happen. But as long as you lap them smooth this would be no problem using the same side. Plus in these higher grits and depending on how quickly they cut, you shouldn't need to put much pressure into sharpening any tool, whether knife and especially razor save bevel setting. But even on all this all stones need to be lapped and flattened as part of regular maintenance. So as long as you lap your stones smooth prior to your sharpening session you should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muamero
Gouging is a risk with most stones, more so with a resin stone such as the Superstone. It's not guaranteed to happen, but it could. The big nicks a cooking knife tends to attract can be a real problem.
Lapping is the real issue. If the same stone does double duty, you will need to lap it often and thus shorten its lifespan. This is why I have separate knife and razor stones. If you have limited storage space and/or budget, you may decide it's worth the risk to just go with the smallest number of hones for now.
The Chosera 1K is hard enough to withstand knives with minimal lapping needed. At the next stage, I might go with a Super 5K for razors and one of those cheap King 6Ks for knives (I have one, it does a fine job) and then whatever you want from there on up. Going to 8K or higher on most kitchen knives is counterproductive, so those higher-grit stones are likely to be razors-only anyway.
+1 to all the above.
I can't speak with expertise to the straight razor side, but as for knives...
The Naniwa superstones are quite soft for learning to freehand knives on. You'll probably be okay with the 1k Naniwa SS, but 3k or higher you'll almost certainly put many gouges in as you're learning.
My suggestion would be to insert the above recommended Suehiro Riko at 5k -- it's a bit firmer and easier to freehand knives on.
For 8k+, you can probably get away with only trailing strokes for knives, so going with Naniwa SS will be okay. Though I personally don't take any of my knives any higher than 5k anymore.
And (strictly for knives), in case you haven't heard it before, make sure you're able to reliably get a good edge at each stage before you start in at higher grits. That is, get comfortable at 1k before attempting 3k or higher or you'll just be wearing out stones without putting any better edge on. It'll take time and practice to be able to hold a steady enough angle to make use of the higher grits.
Thank you all, I forgot to mention I do know how to freehand knifes. Razors not so much. Now that I have read and re-read the stickies I would think that I would be best served with 12k Naniwa to start to learn how to touch up. I am confident with the pasted strop at this point and have been straight shaving for 2 or so years now. So in conclusion I am thinking get the 12 k Naniwa for the razor and keep acquiring going backwards in grit (12-8-4) progression as I master each hone. For knives just buy Riko combination stone in 1k-3k. And a lapping stone off course. What do you think?
Update, my GF bought me Naniwa 3/8k for Christmas. I added Naniwa 220 lapping stone and King 250/1k to the collection. King was good value for the money and I will use it for knife sharpening. I will be carefull and use Naniwa 3k to finish my knife edges. Naniwa 8k I will use for razors only. I will try and touch up my Chisholm straight with it today and see how it goes in term of shaving comfort.
The shave off Naniwa 8K was suprisingly good. Super happy with the results.
I read an earlier thread talking about getting good shaves of off a 1k, 4k and 8k stone. Tried the experiment, which, in the process taught me a lot about the value and importance of bevel setting, and got a good 1k bevel and edge, stropped it and got a DFS from it. Back to the stones and refined it on the 4k. DFS. Ditto for the 8k. Proved to me that all you are doing after a good bevel and 8k finish is polishing (and satisfying the need to chase an "ideal"). I do use a 12k when I feel the 8k is good but needs a touch more smoothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muamero
I think there is misconception to what soft and hard for a stone is.
Soft stones release a bunch of slurry and dish faster as a result, hard stones do not.
Any stone can be gouged by a sharp tip.
Super stones are not too soft at all, and thus work great for razors since we do not want a lot of free grit on the honing surface.
On the other hand Chosera are softer hence very popular for knife sharpening. Can Super stones be used for knives and Choseras for razors? Yes for sure and they work very well for the task, one just has to know the "limitations" so to say and play accordingly.
I have the 1K-3K-8K and the 12K naniwa stones and would never never never use them on any knife. straight razors only. for knives I get an different stone. just my opinion.
For knife sharpening, get an Edge Master belt sander. It will put a razor edge on the dullest knife in under 5 minutes, all while removing very little metal. My EDC is 10 years old and has been sharpened countless times, yet it looks like a factory edge, with no scratches on it.