Next Hone Advise

I currently own one hone. (Naniwa 12k) I have been successful in keeping my professional honed razors (SRD razors) sharp and shaving between Crox/Diamond spray and the 12k.

I have noticed one of my edges flagging and the 12k has recovered it for the most part. (comfortable shaves but not Lynn's edge) I have little to no experience honing (am trying to learn) and after watching Lynn's video for maintaining edges have been following it.

I am considering another hone and thought it may be reasonable to get an 8k (next step down) for when the 12k is not recovering an edge well enough. Am I off basis here? I know the common method is to work from the bottom up but given the quality of my proffesional set bevels I am thinking about doing the opposite.

I respect the opinions I find here and would really like you all to weigh in. Working from the top down (when the razor's bevel has been professionally set) seems to be what Lynn is advocating in his video if I am interpreting it correctly.

Curtis

Keep in mind they won't be like "Insert name of pro honer here" regardless of what hones you use. That is just a matter of experience.

That said, when I touch up my razors, I find it most efficient to just go back to the 1k and make sure the bevel is good. Then I can use standard procedures to get back to shave ready. This eliminates the guesswork and possible redundancy, which ends up actually saving time.

A little more background please...

How many shaves do you get in between 12K touch ups?

Are you doing Dia/Crox or CrOx/Dia and how many? clean the blade in between?

How many strokes is a touch up?

Are you using one layer of tape?

How would your rate the test shave?

This is pretty much the system that I use with great results.
Some razors don't get the DIA/CrOx - and if I wait to long it's a quick trip to the 4/8.
Keep notes, it will help you.

Unless you've messed up the edge, the 12k alone should be sufficient to maintain the razor indefinitely. With pressure, that 12k can be quite aggressive and yet still be a fine finisher with no pressure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJC

A little more background please...

How many shaves do you get in between 12K touch ups?

Are you doing Dia/Crox or CrOx/Dia and how many? clean the blade in between?

How many strokes is a touch up?

Are you using one layer of tape?

How would your rate the test shave?

This is pretty much the system that I use with great results.
Some razors don't get the DIA/CrOx - and if I wait to long it's a quick trip to the 4/8.
Keep notes, it will help you.

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1. I get a good three months in between but I do rotate through three razors. I haven't kept notes so maybe 30 shaves....

2. Diamond and then Crox....seven passes of each.

3. I have not used tape...which is another of my questions...I do not know if SRD/Lynn used tape on the original honing. I also don't understand what that would do to improve the honing..I understand it would increase the angle but.....advantages??

4. Test shaves are good everywhere but the chin and ATG. The razor will still tree top arm hair. The shave is comfortable but sometimes multiple swipes are necessary to get all the hair.

Utopian...I had never considered pressure...I thought it was the ultimate no-no...I just thought going down to an 8k without pressure and then back the the 12k would be the next step when the 12k will not bring the edge all the way back.

Pressure can be used as long as you work back to weight of the blade finishing strokes again as in 1 stone honing. Is only good as long as the bevel is set. The pressure needed would only be light at the stage you are talking about and it should not take long to get back to finishing. Maybe check out the 1 stone honing vid by Gssixgun on YouTube.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Unless you've messed up the edge, the 12k alone should be sufficient to maintain the razor indefinitely. With pressure, that 12k can be quite aggressive and yet still be a fine finisher with no pressure.

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I've been in the same situation as the OP. Utopian is right. The Nani 12K can be a fine finisher and also take a blade up from, say, the 8k level to 12K pretty quickly. Versatile synthetic stone.

Also, it can become even more versatile with a nagura slurry stone, which was recommended to me for precisely this reason. Expand the versatility of the only stone I had in my arsenal. Hat tip, gssixgun. It's not expensive. Incidentally, the next stone I got was a 3/8K combo Naniwa superstone. No regrets.

But, that may be overkill in your case. A slurry on the 12K with 10 or so disciplined circles and 8 laps(light pressure), then clean the stone and a few laps with water(weight of the blade pressure), examine the edge, do your tests, strop slow and long, then the ultimate test: Shave!

Ymmv on the number of laps, but watch not too many. That's been my experience, anyhow. Hope it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Txshooter38

3. I have not used tape...which is another of my questions...I do not know if SRD/Lynn used tape on the original honing. I also don't understand what that would do to improve the honing..I understand it would increase the angle but.....advantages??

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Lynn does not use tape unless the spine is figured or somehow pretty. If it is a plain spine, then he did not tape it.

The principle advantage of taping is to eliminate hone wear--kind of like disconnecting an odometer cable. Yes it does increase the bevel angle. If it was originally honed without tape, then you can, but do not have to, hone with or without tape without any problem.

This helps a bunch. I will watch the video...I did not realize it was ok to go to circles or light pressure on this hone. I have only used weight of the blade so far. I will carefully try some LIGHT pressure.

I guess I can pyramid some light pressure with weight of the blade strokes and see what happens? 1 light pressure 3 no pressure...1 light pressure 5 no pressure and see what happens. Again the edge is not bad it just does not feel like it did when I got it.

My understanding is that SRD razors are honed with one layer of tape.
The tape saves the spine from hone wear and changes the angle ever so slightly.

My guess would be the improvement you have gotten was (mostly) from the DIA/CrOx.
(And you can do a lot with DIA/CrOx)

The more experienced will hopefully chime in - but you might try a single layer of 3M electrical tape (check the WiKi) back to the 12K and oh by the way that 12K was/is lapped ?

I'm not keeping up....
Send Don/Lynn a note and ask about the tape/no tape since you have more than one razor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJC

I'm not keeping up....
Send Don/Lynn a note and ask about the tape/no tape since you have more than one razor.

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Yep. and, when honing, ask yourself how much hone wear do you really want. Translation. Taping your spines eliminates hone wear. That's where you it wears the most. the spine.

IMPORTANT: Know that if you are contemplating tape on/tape off, you need to know how the bevel was set. With tape or without tape. Why? Because you need to consistently maintain the tape on or tape off throughout each hone progression...(restoration honing may differ and is considered advanced).

cheers

The hone was lapped. I guess if the razor was honed with tape and I try to hone without tape it basically does no good because the decreased angle effectively lifts the edge from the stone right? That is the way I understand it if that is correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Txshooter38

The hone was lapped. I guess if the razor was honed with tape and I try to hone without tape it basically does no good because the decreased angle effectively lifts the edge from the stone right? That is the way I understand it if that is correct.

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In theory, you're correct that the geometry is changed and would effect the contact of the edge to some degree. However the difference with one layer of tape is so minute that you could do a set of 20 or so circles and then x-strokes, maybe less, and the difference is corrected.

However, I'm one who encourages taping the spine while learning to prevent uneven wear on the spine which is a real headache.

Unless something has changed, Lynn does not hone with tape unless, as has been mentioned, it's a decorated or fancy spine, or unless specifically requested to use tape.

Howard :)

Utopian made it clear that whether tape was used or not is not really the problem here, perhaps you waited to long to refresh the edge and need to go back 1 or 2 hones in the progression. Ultimately you will want a 1k, 4k,8k progression followed with your 12k. Perhaps a combo stone like the Norton4k/8k would be a good choice for you and it could be used as a bevel setter as well just takes more time.

I do like you approach, as opposed to the Scorched Earth, hog it all away and start over.

Firstly as Utopian said, the 12k is an amazingly versatile stone, capable of much more than most of us require from it.

If you are truly refreshing, not doing repairs, a 12k Super Stone will easily revive an edge. Do use tape, not that it will improve you edges, but commonly new honers use too much pressure and do too many laps needlessly grinding away perfectly good spines. The amount of angle alteration is very minimal, almost non existent.

Until you master honing and can do so with minimal strokes, tape the spine. If doing repair work use 2 layers of tape removing one layer of tape and resetting the bevel once it is set.

You can NEVER put steel back on a spine.

The most important skill you can learn is to recognize a set bevel. The easiest, most foolproof way is by looking straight down on the edge with magnification and just do more laps on the 12K Super Stone.

If you want to go to the next step in honing or towards repair work the 4/8k Norton is the second must have stone, it is really the only stone you need, and it can set a bevel and finish an edge.

The 4/8k Norton, 12K Super Stone and a Chrome Oxide strop you can maintain and do lite restore work on 90 percent of razors.

Do more laps on your pasted strop, for best results more in the 20-30 lap range. Chrome Oxide will keep you shaving for a long time.

Which grit Diamond are you using, .50 or .25 are great for refreshing followed by Chrome Oxide. You are correct not to use pressure but instead do more laps, especially with a pasted strop. Always use weight of the blade pressure when stropping.

The short answer is 4/8k Norton or 3/8k Naniwa, but I doubt you are using your 12K, paste and linen and leather to their full potential.

With three razors, a 12K, DIA/CrOx you are in or very close to, a pretty sweet spot in Straight shaving IMHO - and I envy you.

By the time I could maintaint my regular rotation (much, if not exactly, the same way you are now) I had amassed way more razors, hones and other "stuff". Not that I don't enjoy it - but some times I think about how it was in the golden days of the Straight, when you had two razors, a barbers hone and a pasted & regular strop, for decades.

It sounds like are on the right path and only need to tune your technique - some of that is just practice and maybe a visit with a Mentor.


Smooth Shaving...

Thank you all. There is so much info here and I will keep practicing with the hone and try all of the suggestions. You guys have me pretty much convinced on some tape. I agree....you can't put metal back....makes sense. I think I see a norton 4/8 in my future.