Norton Pike barber hone

I have just acquired this hone from an antique dealer for whom I have a high regard. After some research I'm beginning to wonder if it might be one of the highly regarded Norton hones, i.e. the ones that go for high prices on you know where. If it is, I think I'm going to owe him some more money as he let me have it as part of a buy of 3 razors. It had come from an old barber's estate.

NB I know we don't do valuations here and I'm quite capable of finding a value when I know what I'm dealing with. So, just for the record, is this what I think it is?

The dimensions are: 5" long, 2" wide and 5/8" thick

Attachment 191714

I'm no expert. But it looks like you scored to me!

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Originally Posted by DireStraights

I'm no expert. But it looks like you scored to me!

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It is definately what you think and hope it is..

I've always wanted to play with one but am beginning to doubt that it will happen.

The best way to find its "value" is to list it on ebay.

Definitely what you think it is. And there is one on the ubiquitous auction site right now as a matter of fact. You maybe should go give that antique dealer a kiss, lol.

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Originally Posted by eKretz

Definitely what you think it is. And there is one on the ubiquitous auction site right now as a matter of fact.

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Shhhhh... Yes there is but please dont bid on it lol. Unless someone else has one they want to offer up.. Hint hint.. I plan on owning that hone! I have been kicking myself for selling the one I had!

If that is THE one whoever is going to sell it on ebay should make sure the listing includes Australia. The competitive axe guys favor those hones above all others. They go to wall when one comes up on the bay.

Just noticed you're in Australia ...... nice score.

That is the one!
Take it from me, a better razor hone was never made.
Well, at least I haven't tried any;)

Attachment 191744Attachment 191745That's because you haven't tried this one. It's this stone on steroids!

Mate, better score than the first goal by Cahill in the Australia v China game, and that is saying something.

Yes, you did well & the fact that you got a box in decent condition is a plus too,,, Thank you for sharing it.

Thanks for the many encouraging replies.

I've now lapped the hone on 360, 600 and 1200 W&D. Went easily enough but a few stubborn scratches required extra work.

Any recommendations before use? I have a black Arkie that needed burnishing with a steel edge before use and was wondering if these types of hones also required something like that. The Norton has a much softer matrix than novaculite and would therefore work on the principle of hard abrasive particles embedded in a softer substrate - unlike the Arkansas stone. I would like to get advice from folks with specific experience on the Norton hone. The instructions supplied by Norton do not refer to any need for preconditioning and suggest the hone can be used either dry or with lather.

I don't have the Norton, but have lapped and used a fair few barber hones recently. If it's very soft I'd steer clear of the chisel and just let repeated razor use bring the stone to the optimum. If it's fairly hard then you can do the chisel burnish but do it lightly with razor pressure only first and then test by honing a razor. If the edge is pretty rough then give the chisel another go with a little more pressure and try it again.

I'm not sure if you have the instructions but I'd follow the instructions given as to whether to use the stone dry, with water or lather or with oil. If you haven't got them maybe one of our other members does.

I have had to experiment in the past to see what worked best with barber hones that were missing instructions - some will not work well with water and are better dry or with oil. You'll know if you have one by trying water - you'll see tiny bits of steel stuck on/in the stone - this is called pinning. If this happens STOP immediately or you will embed the steel so strongly you'll need to re-lap the stone to get it out. Switch to oil and most of this will come loose as long as you didn't embed it too deeply.

Regrettably, I have never used a Norton barber hone. However, I strongly suggest that you should not put oil on it. Also, no burnishing should be needed for this hone.

I was lucky enough to have 2 of these Kings Of Barbers Hones. The first one was just lapped like you did and it worked fine afterwards, under any circumstance that this hone should be used with oil, and no burnishing needed to make it usable, especially if your eventually sell it.

A barbers hone like this one that was made years ago could be very prone to be unusable if the binder start to break down, it is quite common. The second one i got for a song im still working on because of this exact problem, the binder is week on both sides and will need a lot of lapping to maybe make it usable. That said if you want to eventually sell it, i would leave it as is right now, they are a lot of fun to play with and will leave a wicked edge on a razor.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

I was lucky enough to have 2 of these Kings Of Barbers Hones. The first one was just lapped like you did and it worked fine afterwards, under any circumstance that this hone should NOT be used with oil, and no burnishing needed to make it usable, especially if your eventually sell it....snip...

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Just for making sure!
~Richard

Luckily, no binder breakdown is evident. I've now used the hone (only a few stokes on a previously honed blade (Shapton 12k finshed)) and while it felt a bit rough, the edge passed the well-known hair tests easily after stropping.

On the subject of finishing hones feeling rough, my perception of roughness may be due to my long (only 4 years or so :-) use of the Norton 8000. That hone has been described as feeling "gummy" and certainly, the Shapton Pro 12000 - which is really a much finer hone - does feel less smooth in comparison.

Is it possible that the barber hones that people treat with oil and vaseline etc, have fired ceramic binders? This Norton Pike hone does not appear to be a ceramic but it's hard to know.

Thanks Richard, no oil.

Yes usually they do. Soft barber hones usually work dry, with water or lather.

I've now had a superb shave from the razor that I touched up on the Norton hone. It seems to have actually improved an edge recently finished using a Shapton Pro 12k. I'm happy.

There is an art to using these hones. I have not mastered mine yet but I can say the amount of laps and pressure determine your success or failure. I use mine dry and then wet. I took chips (small) out of an e-Bay Duck and brought it back to shaving with one of these. The thing about oil is once you use it everything else quits working. Water beads off the surface and lather I have not tested. Mainly because I heard this is what degrades the surface. Not so much from use but not being washed clean after use. I imagine using lather would take it up a notch,, in grit,, so to speak.

I don't have the same hone as you but 1 of 3 others I do have is close I am sure :<0)

You got a good one. Keep at it and you'll love it.

The few barbers I knew well enough to show me stuff in the '80s used their barber hones dry, and their coticules with lather from their lather king machines. Just to do touch ups AFAIK. Never to restore a beat razor. OTOH, we never did get into that aspect of honing.

I find it hard to believe that Norton hone can be 'that' good, but Sham said it is. Too bad they aren't still a stock item if they're that good. Chances of getting one at a reasonable price are slim and none ...... unless someone gets real lucky.

I have used my Swaty "Am Wien" dry for years as a machinist. That for a final edge on cutting tools and knives. I have used barber hones dry with the best results from the resin hones like the Swaty. I have used lather and only water though with no better results.
There are other binders for the grits and they may? behave differently.
My better and best barber hones directions say to use dry and wipe with a damp cloth to remove swarf.
~Richard

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I find it hard to believe that Norton hone can be 'that' good, but Sham said it is. Too bad they aren't still a stock item if they're that good. Chances of getting one at a reasonable price are slim and none ...... unless someone gets real lucky.

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Well, I have to report after a couple of weeks ownership that they are great hones. They refine an edge put on by a Shapton 12k and will refresh any razor I've got to a level that surprises me. I've only honed a hundred or so razors all up so I'm still really at the lower end of experience, but I've not seen anything that comes near this little stone. Modine's review on another site gives it a ringing endorsement, indeed he says the scratch pattern is similar to that produced by a Gokumyo 20k. I can absolutely confirm that the edges are terrific. It's a pity that the damn things are so expensive!