First (-ish) hone purchase

Howdy gents,

I will come out and say right up front that I am a lurker. HUGE lurker. I've been a member for at least a year (Correction: 2 years! :o) and I haven't posted hardly at all. That's only because it's hard to have anything of value to say when I can learn so much from you all. :D

Thanks to your collective knowledge I have moved far from my first piece of crap Indian steel razor; I now have somewhere around 12 German and British razors of all different manufacturers.

For maintenance, I have the following:

Canvas strop with white jeweler's rouge - 20 passes before shave
Leather strop - 40 passes before shave
Apart barber's hone - refresh as needed

I have honed my razors on my own using hobby sandpaper, with decent results, but I am ready to move away from the sandpaper and to acquire a bonified hone.

The obvious choice is the Norton 4/8 but that is outside of my budget at this point. I need to stay in the $30-$50 range.

Is the Chinese 12k waterstone a good choice? If it's only good for finishing, could my barber's hone serve the same role?

What about the Chinese 6k stones? I think they is probably my best option, but I don't expect a comfortable shaving edge off of it. Could I follow up with my barber's hone and get a decent edge? Or maybe a 6k -> CrOx

I am not opposed to buying some CrOx if necessary.

Thanks everyone!

Welcome lurker!

Your barber hone is a very good one. It is capable of creating a good shaving edge. For that reason, the Chinese finishing hone is not necessarily necessary.

I have set bevels and finished razors with just a Swaty. I assume the same could be done with an Apart hone but I have never tried bevel setting with one of mine. I am confident that I could do it but not as sure that you can. Given your monetary limitation, you might want to consider getting a $50 bevel setter instead. I think for $45 you could get an Arashiyama 1k.

I have never tried what I am about to propose but I will test it tonight and report back.

I will bevel set on an Arashiyama 1k, follow up with an Apart hone, then strop and shave. I will report back in the morning.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to set a bevel and "refine" the edge with a limited budget. I have tried it, and it wasn't worth it. I would suggest you to not even think about getting something cheap instead of something that actually works and costs like 20$ more.
For bevel setting, you can get a king 1k stone, they are very cheap, and quite reliable. They are not Chocera, but do their job.
As for the 2k and 6k Chinese stones, you'll probably end up with a C12k stone with a different name. Again, keep your money, and spend them for a norton 4/8k when you are ready, they are worth their price, unlike the cheaper alternatives.
And, for finisher, your barber hone is all you need.

Thanks for your input guys.

Utopian, I look forward to seeing your results.

Vasilis, I am trying to avoid the same mistake I made when first buying a razor: I 'stepped over a dollar to save a penny' by buying a cheap Paki or Indian razor, only to find out that it was a waste.

If something like a King 1k/6k combo won't suffice then perhaps I should indeed wait.

The king 1/6 combo is a good idea for you. The barbers hone is probably fast enough to remove the 6k scratches without much effort.

I think metalmasterjp on ebay has some decent priced private brand stones. They aren't marked or fancy but for the size & price they are a good option. The king stone can't stear you wrong for the price though either.

Sorry for the delayed reply. Here's what I did.

I picked a 6/8 Clauss that was awaiting restoration and had no previous bevel work done on my part. The edge was not straight so it required edge repair prior to bevel setting. I used only the Arashiyama 1k. Tape was used during all honing.

Bevel repair was done with the spine about 45 degrees off of the hone. Once the edge was straight, the spine was brought down to the hone for bevel setting. Edge straightening and bevel setting were done mainly with chisel strokes followed by x strokes . Finishing also was done with chisel strokes followed by x strokes.

My honing was rushed yesterday due to a phone call informing me that I needed to come to work earlier than planned. I rushed the bevel set and, even though I know it was not complete, I stupidly tried polishing up the edge with an Apart hone. So, as expected, the shave sucked.

I would guess that I did maybe 300-500 strokes on the 1k. Because this is done at a stroke rate of 3 per second, it's not a long time commitment. Even though I knew the bevel set was not complete, I proceeded with about 150 chisel strokes on the Apart followed by about 50 x strokes. But again, this was rushed and the shave sucked.

I went back to the bevel set again that night. Basically I did more of the same but jointed the edge once near the end of the bevel set, followed by more x strokes. I finished with about 100 x strokes on the Apart, beginning with pressure and then transitioning to no pressure.

The shave was adequate. It was nothing great but it got the job done with no resulting alum sting at all. I have maintained a set of razors with nothing but a Swaty and a Carborundum 102, with random alternations between the two, since 2002, and this shave was not as good.

I figure there are two reasons for this. First, the Apart hone is much more fine relative to the Swaty or the 102, so it is less capable of correcting the 1k edge. Second, the edges of my other barber honed razors have been refined by those hones for over a decade. I suspect if I continue to use this Clauss razor only with Apart hone maintenance, the edge and shave will continue to get better.

Final thoughts:

1. I suggested this "progression" only to accommodate the OP. It is not an ideal for someone with one or two razors, nor would it be for someone interested in honing a lot of razors. I think it would be fine for someone with 10. The initial work would be done with the bevel setter and refinement patiently would be done with the Apart. An intermediate hone certainly would speed up the progression.

2. Not all barber hones are the same. Years ago it took me hours to set a bevel with a Swaty. Now I can do it in 10 minutes and have the razor finished in 15. That is not the case for an Apart hone because it is much more fine.

Utopian, thanks for the thorough comments!!!!

I've read it 3 or 4 times to glean info from your pseudo-experiment with the Apart. What I get is that though a razor can be maintained with a 1k and Apart, and perhaps a bit better with a 1k/6k and Apart, it is far from an ideal setup because of time and edge quality.

I have held off on my purchase while I consider the advice from all of the above contributors, and while I learn to use what I have.

You mention that the Apart is significantly finer than the Swaty; I know that Barber hone grit is approximate, so I won't even ask, but: I recently acquired a CrOx pasted felt strop. Where does the Apart fit in now?

Leather / CrOx / Jeweler's Rouge Linen / Apart?
Or...
Leather / JR Linen / CrOx / Apart?
Or...
Leather / Apart / JR Linen / CrOx?

Obviously the best way to me to figure this out is to try, but hey...this kind of question is what these boards are for! :D