Im a newbie honer but know enough..
i lapped my hone but when i use it this happens.. please helpAttachment 196850
Printable View
Im a newbie honer but know enough..
i lapped my hone but when i use it this happens.. please helpAttachment 196850
Some more info would help. Are you taping the spine? What type of razor are you trying to hone?
Not taping the spine. im learning on my whipped dog vintage. My first hone on the stone but i lapped with sandpaper i taped to a wood block. But on the 4k side it even acted like it was maybe uneven. Like the 2cm from the edge had this type of marking all the way down and even though the water placement followed my razor and stroke, i would get this type of "scuff" in certain spots only.
Edit: the only reason i ask is because referencing to lynn abrams video on his norton he just gets a nice slurry with no scuffing stuck to the stone so why is mine?
aBam915,
Draw a grid on your Norton with soft pencil, and soak for at least 20 minutes in cold water. Lap with your silicon carbide paper until grid has been removed - do figure of eight movements, reversing the stone every 20 passes. Finish with 320 or 400 grit carbide paper.
Then try a test hone and see what you get.
Have fun :)
Best regards
Russ
Ok, a wooden block is not an ideal surface to lap your hone on. You need something perfectly flat, like a piece of float glass. If you are going to use sandpaper, you need to use a good quality product from Norton or 3m. Draw a grid on your hone with a pencil, that helps you see where you are hitting and missing, and how true it is.
Ya i guess ill get something MEANT fpr lapping tomorrow to make sure thats not the issue. But one thing i dont with the pencil grid technique is, what if my stone isnt flat then draw the grid... if i remove all the marks all that means in my head is i removed an even layer but i dont know that my stone itself is true
just a thought
Edit: thanks for the input, i appreciate it.
You are not trying to " remove" the grid. Draw the grid run your lapping plate/block on the Norton. After 10 strokes if you look at the grid you will be able to see which high spots in the stone you are hitting.
You want to run 8s not in one spot at a time but as much or all of the stone at a time. Assuming you have chosen a flat plate, when the grid
is gone your stone is flat
Ya thats probably my issue. Like i said i need to get something more meant for lapping. But side-note, could it be thar i havent taken enough initally off? I just took enough off to where it didnt feel too grainy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTmke
I would say that you are trying to remove the grid. By drawing a grid you will identify the low lying points on your hone - the only way to get down to these is by removing all the surrounding material. When you have done this your hone should be flat.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTmke
By the way, if you have some remaining pencil marks at the ends of you stone - don't worry as it's quite common for synthetic stones to taper slightly at the very ends.
Not a great big deal. Clean off the grid once it's loaded (you can rub the stone against any other stone you have and just rinse the surface of the finer stone after you do that) and continue to hone until you are done. Use x strokes (or circles) so that the whole edge of the razor is done evenly.
Maybe I was not clear enough. What I mean is do not try to remove the grid a spot at a time. You need the whole stone flat. Sanding one spot to get rid of the grid is not going to work. I draw a grid and test the stone after 10 strokes. Keep checking it. Wipe of the grid and draw a new one. Keep sanding until the stone is flat.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
It might "scuff" in only one spot because of how the blade is shaped or the hone wear. You said you were trying on a vintage whipped dog. They aren't beauties he sells. Who knows what condition the blade is in. You should show us more pictures of the blade. Both sides reflecting light etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by aBam916
Also make sure your stroke is dead flat and even. Not lifting the heel or toe as you go.
For a very inexpensive lapping tool, I tape the wet/dry sandpaper around a plate of glass taken from an unused picture frame. I use PhatMan's steps, above.
If I get "scuffing" after that, I might look at whether I'm putting the blade's shoulder to the hone.
Read / Watch / Learn more then you ever wanted to know about the Norton 4/8 including how to lap
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html
On top of that he the razor may or may not have been taped. You would need to ask Larry.Quote:
Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER
I tried so much and it still does it. I try different angles. I relapped with the correct paper on a level surface quite a bit. Also tried different angles and strokes... still same results. I feel defeated :(
NOTE: I think the blade im using is the issue which sucks because i wanted to learn on this before the dovo or aust i have in the mail. Ill get pics of the blade soon but im seeing that the blade i have has a natural smile to the edge but looks its meant to be there..
I think you have a couple of competing possible issues here.
1) is the stone perfectly flat. Plenty of excellent advice above
2) how does the razor lay against the stone. As Andrew and Ed both mentioned, the way the blade contacts the stone could cause the patterns you are seeing on the hone's face. A smiling blade will benefit from a rolling x-stroke which makes sure that the entire edge contacts the hone at some point of the stroke. Without that, if you were to take your blade which you say has a natural smile and just lay it down on the stone, you will probably see that the edge contacts the stone at the wide part of the smile while the heel and toe do not. This could cause the pattern shown in your photo.
The most important question hasn't been asked though: regardless of how the hone looks, how is the edge?
You started theread by saying you're a newbie honer - no-one has yet asked the question as to how new are you to using a straight razor?
The reason I raise this is that if you are inexperienced with straight razors generally, then why are you even trying to hone one?
Get to use one, learn about stropping, then get better at using your razor, then get better at stropping and then, if you decide you like it - and only then, think about hones.
Again.. like i said. I have more than one razor and the main one i SHAVE with i only strop and will send out for hones. But why not learn to hone now? Especially if it a blade im not needing to shave with?Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
Edit: i meant that by i have and used to hone a lot of knives so i have the concept pretty well but straights are a new beast.
1. Ya it is true as of now when i grid and then lap evenly it takes all the graphite off at the same speed and is consistantQuote:
Originally Posted by Cangooner
2. Yes i figure it is this vintage blade. the blade smiles so im learning to x stroke or do smiling strokes and not so much of the straight pass and or passes that in my mind are meant for a equally flat laying blade while honing
We all learn differently. To my mind, your experience to date with the Norton loading up with swarf in particular parts of the hone would have told me more about the razor and hone than I could ever hope to understand by asking other people.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising you or trying to make out I'm smarter - but why not just carry on with what you have and learn from experience?
True and i understand Rob. but point blank all of this is relaxing, zin, and all around a joy for me. So learning to hone (which can be a frustrating learning curve) is unnecessary but its fun and i figure why not start now since i dont really use this certain straight.
I suppose I'm wondering for myself here, looking at his original picture I'm not exactly sure what his issue is. He should expect there to be some metal to be shed onto the stone should he not? I feel Lynn Abrams had some build up during his video but he made sure to keep adding water to the face of the stone to move that around. Also, I use norton's and fresh out of the box I lapped them twice with the pencil grid technique. Mr. Abrams had mentioned that new norton stones come out on the rough side and need a little extra work to smooth them out and recommended that.
As I began honing, and granted I am inexperienced, knowing I had a few problem spots on my blade I noticed those marks left on the stone, and I also could feel those blade imperfections on the stone, and as it seemed the stone wore those probelm spots away, the marks also appeared less and less and generally were located around the problem areas to begin with. I felt the marks were more feedback about the blade than indicative of a problem with my stone.
Looking at the photo of your hone I would make two comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by aBam916
First if I'm getting that much swarf on my 8K then either the surface of the stone is way to rough and needs to be lapped off significantly (as in lap it till I get to a smooth grit) not just flat. Some new Norton stones need a couple of MM's lapped off to get to a good working surface as the top layer is not serviceable. OR
You just haven't done enough 4k work, one way to tell if your 4k work is complete is to see how much swarf comes of the edge when you put it to a properly conditioned 8k surface.
We are polishing at this 8k stage and seeing allot of swarf is a very good indication that we have not maxed out our 4k level.
Lynn has done a vid on youtube on lapping stones and talks about having to lap some Nortons up to an 1/8 inch off the top before he finds the surface he's after, this could be part of the problem with this stone.
When I started honing I used the Norton system and I found the link that Glen(gssixgun) has given here to be an invaluable tool to my overall success, I read everything I could find on this forum about honing on the Nortons. Then I got a mentor and spent some time one on one to see how to hone, I had lots of honing experience on knives and tools, razors are allot different IMHO, YMMV
I should add that I skipped the 4k honing and went right to the 8k as it was suggested that may be all I need for basically a touch up honing. So the swarf I had was expected because I probably could have given it a little time on the 4k first but chose kind of to work backwards being that I was new to the stones and figured I should try the least invasive approach first. So it took a few extra passes on the 8k than a normal touch up because I did have a small knick in the edge that I needed to work out and seem to have. If I couldnt get it feeling smooth on the 8k then I was gonna go down from there and then back up, but don't feel the blade needed all that work as it was a new razor getting it's first touch up.
