Which stone for around 8k?

Hi all,

I am looking for a 2 3/8" x 7" honing stone and I need your help - mainly I am thinking around 8000, but I am open to suggestions for between 6000-120000.
Important to me are, in order, keenness, maintenance, speed.
Money, as always are an issue, my budget is limited to US$160 EUR150 GBP110
To be honest, mainly I am leaning to towards one of these (in order):

Sigma Power Ceramic 8000 (or 10k, which has the advantage of a huge sharpening surface - 140mm wide)
MST Müller
Imperia La Roccia
Suehiro Gokumyo 10000
Arkansas Translucent

I am happily using for sharpening a 1000-2000-4000 sequence of Suzuki-Ya stones described here https://fabulalignarius.wordpress.com/tag/pm-v11-test/ which replaced a combination of Naniwa Chosera (sorry - too expensive their 10k) and Shapton Pro (which I MIGHT consider for their 8k or 12k).

Thank you for your help.

I wouldn't put Arkansas translucents in the 8 k range. With incorrect prep I suppose you could make it cut that roughly though over time it would become much finer with use.if you want a wide ark they are findable at Dans Whetstone or Natural Whetstone dot com.cheers.

I use the Shapton Glass system, and I really like them. They are very fast cutting stones. The 8k will produce a brilliant mirror finish on any edge be it razor or knife, which from the grits that you are using I am assuming you are used to knives. The 8k is ABOUT twice as fine as the norton 8k, but the particles on the shapton are sharper IMO and thus cut very fast but will put a nice shave ready edge on the blade.

However I have come to really enjoy my Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. it cuts very very fast even for the 0.5 micron particle size. It is a very nice sized stone and very hard as with all the Gokumyo series so I would say that the 10k that you are looking at would be no different. at 1.0 micron particle size it would be a very nice finisher. So if it was me in your shoes IMO i would go with the Gokumyo. It is a pretty good grit jump from the 4k (~6 micron I assume) to their 10k (1.0 micron) but like I said the Gokumyo cuts very fast and if the 10k puts as smooth an edge respectively as the 20k then you will not be disappointed.

Happy Honing,
Neil

I have the Sigma hones and they are relegated to woodworking tools, I just don't like the edge I get from them. Other use them and are happy with them, but not me.

I'd take the arkansas trans of those noted above. It has more range. The gok is a good stone, I guess (had one for a while), but an experienced user can do as much with a trans ark and there's something nicer about using natural stones.

I would have thought you could pick up a naniwa super stone 10 or 12k for that sort of price. I only have naniwas's and get on with them fine. The advantage would be that there are a lot of users here with them so advice would be readily available.
I can't comment on the selection you have put forward as I don't have them.
I just did a quick search and found this for under $100 delivered
http://m.ebay.com/itm/261200513629?varId=560192855126

Shapton or coticle for me.

Coticule. Can pretty much be any grit you like in the 3-4K through 8K range.

And although at the top of the price range, they are available for about $160 or so, shipped and lapped w/slurry stone

Naniwa SS 8K.

but, I do have Suehiro 20k that is awesome!

For a 8k stone the norton or naniwa ss would fit the bill cost less and be more reliable and consistent and there is plenty of info on their use.

It sounds as though the OP only currently has stones up to 4k. While I own and love my Arkie finishers, I'm not sure he could reasonably bridge that gap with just a finisher Arkie. It would probably take a ridiculous amount of time. Possibly if it was a two sided stone and one side kept freshly lapped and the other kept prepped for finishing, but this may be beyond the purview of a beginner. I would recommend at least an 8k in between.

Of the remaining stones, I have only used the ILR, which I am currently testing. It is pretty decent, but the edges aren't quite as good as a properly prepped Ark or other superb finishers. Plenty keen, but not quite as comfortable for me. (Although I have pretty sensitive skin). Certainly shaveable though. As they are natural stones it's possible that others may be better or worse than the one I've got also.

I too have a Suehiro 20k, but have never used the 10k. I have heard good things about it from people whose judgment I trust though.

Is not that I am going from 4k to shaving - I am using after a 6k-12k stone a compund and than leather. As I sold my Chosera 10k - as a package with the other stones - I need to replace it, with something as good or better and in my budget.

8k I love my Norton............oh sure there may be some that are better by a tad but for the price hard to beat. I use my Naniwa SS 12K to finish on however and complete the honing process when I need to go from 4k-8k-12k. Touching up I use only the 12k with a leather strop with CroMox paste then hit the plain leather strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmihai

Is not that I am going from 4k to shaving - I am using after a 6k-12k compund and than leather. As I sold my Chosera 10k - as a package with the other stones - I need to replace it, whit something as good or better and in my budget.

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Your post here motivated me to rehone my Hart Steel 7/8 today; it was more than a bit overdue. Rather than the usual Naniwa SS 8k-12k progression, I cracked out the coticule. Medium slurry, thin slurry, water; combination of little circules and sort of x-strokes. Maybe 15 minutes or so worth of work.

I had forgotten just how nice a proper coticule honing was. Got me thinking maybe the Naniwa stones may be history in the near future. We shall see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phoenix51

Your post here motivated me to rehone my Hart Steel 7/8 today; it was more than a bit overdue. Rather than the usual Naniwa SS 8k-12k progression, I cracked out the coticule. Medium slurry, thin slurry, water; combination of little circules and sort of x-strokes. Maybe 15 minutes or so worth of work.

I had forgotten just how nice a proper coticule honing was. Got me thinking maybe the Naniwa stones may be history in the near future. We shall see.

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The recommendations are leaning towards

1. Naniwa Snow White 8000
2. Naniwa SuperStone 8000
3. Arkansas Translucent
4. Yellow Coticule
5. Suehiro Gokumyo 10000

Naniwa Snow White - I am, just a little bit, doubtful about his one - I hope is harder and quicker than Chosera - which I just sold - or the Superstone. Chosera & Superstone, in my setup, was slower than Sigma Power (and than Shapton Pro for harder steels only). As for wear - Chosera AND Superstone both worn more than Sigma and Shapton Pro. Performance - No complains here - both Chosera & Superstone were able to produce the keenest and smoothest edge than any other stone I ever tried.

So my basic question is - is there a stone that performs as wonderful as Chosera/SuperStone but is quicker and less dishing prone (more stable, harder)? I was hoping Suehiro Gokumyo 10000 will be the one, but, for whatever reason, there are not too many people knowing it.

No on the MST Mueller or Arkansas.

Not sure where or why you chose those, but your best bet would be Naniwa, Norton, or Shapton (in no specific order). The Gokumyo would be a good stone if it's like their 20K, but I have no experience with their 8K...just 3K & 20K.

If you are asking this question, you should stay away from natural stones as each natural stone like a coticule is different & can take a while for an experienced honer to figure out.

The naniwa Snow White 8000 is the best 8000 stone I have used

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Originally Posted by cubancigar2000

The naniwa Snow White 8000 is the best 8000 stone I have used

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Is that stone still in production, or is it only available used or NOS?

On the other side - Mastro Livi uses Coticule and Arkansas ... learning how to use them is not an issue....

Like shooter said, unless you are ready for the learning curve that comes with naturals and the risk having to work around imperfections, I would go synthetic. You may be used to naturals, idk, but the consistency and the quality of many synthetics today, I would lean toward them. I am looking into going natural probably in the future but for now I have to learn my synthetics which because of consistency are what is recommended for most beginners. Not that you are one, I'm just stating that is what is recommended. Again my vote is for the gokumyo's. The gokumyo series was made and designed from the start to be their highest quality finisher. All the gokumyos are finishing stones and unless I am mistaken they don't make one less than 10k. Again I am only talking about the gokumyos, not any of the other series by suehiro. You would be hard pressed to use one in your lifetime if not your kid's lifetime, thus it takes a long time to dish. IMHO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmihai

Is not that I am going from 4k to shaving - I am using after a 6k-12k stone a compund and than leather. As I sold my Chosera 10k - as a package with the other stones - I need to replace it, with something as good or better and in my budget.

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You missed the point of my post. You most likely won't get the best edges you can if you go from a 4k stone to a properly prepped finishing Ark. It will also take about a million laps. I usually go to at least 8k first. And you won't need any pasted strop afterward if you use an Ark correctly.

Understood now. Thank you for your patience. Than what before Arkansas? Coticule - as Mastro Livi? Or Naniwa Snow White - as most recommend? Or Suehiro Gokumyo 10000?

8k Super Stone or 8k Shapton Pro IMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmihai

Understood now. Thank you for your patience. Than what before Arkansas? Coticule - as Mastro Livi? Or Naniwa Snow White - as most recommend? Or Suehiro Gokumyo 10000?

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I'd use the coti before the ark. The ark needs an edge in good shape, and the nani snow white is an aggressive stone, so you have less chance of microchipping issues with the coti. 95% of the time it will make no difference, though.