Removing nicks from a blade

Hello everybody, I have started getting into straight razors around a year ago.
While I have started with making some cuts on my face over time they have decreased to practically nothing.
However I am starting to feel that the blade is not as sharp as it used to be.
Using a disposable razor with 1 or 2 passes my face is perfectly clean. Even at its peak condition it was slightly worse than a disposable razor.
I own a NANIWA 3000/10000 waterstone and a strop with 4 sides.
I have failed so far to get me blade to be as sharp as a disposable razor.
I am seeing many people getting near-perfect shaves just with one passes all over youtube.
But I am struggling to emulate that experience.

I will really appreciate if someone gives me instructions as to how I can proceed with the resources I have (NANIWA 3000/10000 waterstone and a 4 sided strop)

Instructions like "Do this 10-15 times" have not really been useful to me since everyone's use is somehow different.
I need a step-by-step guide where I can confirm physically that my blade is ready to proceed to next step instead of counting travels on hones/strops

Here are my strop sides:
1)Attachment 200612
2)Attachment 200613
3)Attachment 200614
4)Attachment 200615

This is the picture of my nicked blade:
Attachment 200616
It is Stainless steel NOT Carbon Steel

And finally here is the link to the stone I have:
Naniwa Super Stone 3000 / 10000 grit combi | knivesandtools.co.uk



Thanks to all of you for your advice and instructions in advance :)
I really hope this frustration will be over eventually.

For me the 3/10000 hone would not be enough. I would add the naniwa 1K to set the bevel. also I would watch the honing videos on you tube. especially the one by Lynn Abrams. That's the one I learned from but there are many and I believe you can't watch too many. Honing is a learning process achieved by watching the teachers and practice. I would obtain a less expensive razor off the bay to practice on and would send my good razor out to one of the pro's to be honed so I would have something to compare my honing to. Good honing can be achieved by doing this. How ever don't expect to achieve an edge as good as the pros the first pop out the box. it does take practice. I read the Mr. Abrams has honed over 50,000 razors and still counting. I have been honing for about 2 years now and still go back to the videos from time to time. some blades I get a great edge and some wouldn't cut hot butter and all kinds of edges in between. At any rate I wish you success and enjoy the sport.

Thanks for the tips, As I am living fairly close to Solingen, I am planning to have my razor honed by a pro and learn the act :)

I am also willing to get one more stone for honing, but would 3000/10000+1000 as you recommended would be enough assuming I can do it?

A typical progression of hones would be something like 1K, 3 or 4K, 8K, and once you get that perfected there are a ton of other hones you can go with in the pursuit of the perfect edge. You can achieve a perfectly acceptable shaving edge from the 8K, anything less will not be comfortable. You could try a member search for Germany and PM any active members to see who is near that you could meet with. One on one time with another member is truly the fastest way to learn.

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Originally Posted by heyjude

Thanks for the tips, As I am living fairly close to Solingen, I am planning to have my razor honed by a pro and learn the act :)

I am also willing to get one more stone for honing, but would 3000/10000+1000 as you recommended would be enough assuming I can do it?

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That would be plenty. Personally, I'd joint that edge to the final profile I wanted to keep and then cut the bevel. It'll make it easier to work only as much metal as needed, and you'll be able to control the profile of the final edge a little easier (otherwise it can end up dead straight, and you may or may not want that).

You'll be surprised how fast a 1k stone will remove metal with a little pressure (not too much) and tape your spine while you do the work (at least the 1k stone work), it's already got enough wear that you don't want more on it.

There's less metal to remove than you'd expect there (as in it looks worse than it is). If you take a before and after picture, aside from the nicks, you won't be able to see any visible loss in the chord of the razor)

I currently use 1-3-5-8-12K Naniwa stones for honing and a 20K to finish but as stated before you can get a good edge off a 8K . The 1K for setting the bevel and the others to build up to the finisher. One on One teaching would be great but practice is steel needed. I also tape my spine even on a new razor. I really don't like scratches but that would be a personal choice. The 10,000 stone you have would probably take the place of my 12. Before I got the 20K I used the 12K for a finisher and it gave really good shaves. My stones were like a really good cake. the 20K was icing. There's a world of knowledge here on the place and the guys here are more than willing to share. good folks. When your not around your instructor remember the videos on you tube. they help tremendously. Have fun and enjoy.

I'd use this video as a reference: https://youtu.be/

You do need a better progression at least to 8K and a proper strop.
You can easily undo a proper honing with a rough synthetic strop, which may be the root of your edge problems.
Good strops can be purchase for around 50 dollars, check SRD for a nice beginners strop.

I have nothing to add to the great advice you already received.

My comment addresses your request for step by step directions. That's impossible to do. Honing is really a play it by ear skill.

There are too many variables. You are one and the razor is the second and the hones you use are another. You access the problem and decide how to start and monitor your progress and as need be alter the methods as you go.

We can only give general advice. That's why honing is a skill.

Thanks to all of you guys for replies, I have found them extremely helpful :)

I have decided to add one more combination stone to my arsenal,
So I am already having, 3000/10000, which NANIWA you think would close the gap?
I am given to understand that coarser grits have bigger impacts on the blade but it is not good for finishing as it will not produce a fine edge right?

Also, the strop I am having is a reasonably good one, also German-made so I seriously doubt the dullness would be caused by strop, because by shaving experience got better as I was handling stropping better.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

That would be plenty. Personally, I'd joint that edge to the final profile I wanted to keep and then cut the bevel. It'll make it easier to work only as much metal as needed, and you'll be able to control the profile of the final edge a little easier (otherwise it can end up dead straight, and you may or may not want that).

You'll be surprised how fast a 1k stone will remove metal with a little pressure (not too much) and tape your spine while you do the work (at least the 1k stone work), it's already got enough wear that you don't want more on it.

There's less metal to remove than you'd expect there (as in it looks worse than it is). If you take a before and after picture, aside from the nicks, you won't be able to see any visible loss in the chord of the razor)

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To be honest, even with equal pressure I was barely feeling that metal was being removed from my blade on 3000 grit, was it because it was too fine in comparison to 1000 grit?

I have several basic concerns about honing:
1) Do I hone the same way like I strop just the blade is reverted, applying slight and equal pressure, not lifting the spice, etc?
2) Since it is a waterstone I just wet it with water and as it dries up during honing I wet it again, is this right?
3) What other tips can you recommend?

1) When you hone, the edge should lead up and down the hone. As far as pressure, some use pressure when setting the bevel, but after the bevel is established less pressure is used. The spine should be in constant contact.
2) Some stones need to be soaked others only need to sprayed with water.If you use the Naniwa super stones, they do not need to be soaked.
3) Be patient with yourself. Learning to hone can be frustrating process. Like others have said practice on another razor. But make sure the razor is in good condition, i.e., without a lot of hone wear, without rust along the edge, a nice profile.

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Originally Posted by Mephisto

1) When you hone, the edge should lead up and down the hone. As far as pressure, some use pressure when setting the bevel, but after the bevel is established less pressure is used. The spine should be in constant contact.
2) Some stones need to be soaked others only need to sprayed with water.If you use the Naniwa super stones, they do not need to be soaked.
3) Be patient with yourself. Learning to hone can be frustrating process. Like others have said practice on another razor. But make sure the razor is in good condition, i.e., without a lot of hone wear, without rust along the edge, a nice profile.

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Can you direct me to some resource that explains the details of establishing bevel and alike?
My entire razor is perfectly free of dust at this point :)
But when it comes to honing, If I add 1000 grit to my 3000/10000 addition, would that be all?

Begin by reading the Library, Honing/Beginers Guide to Honing and watch honing videos in Additional Resources, Videos.

Try a search for bevel setting. You will be reading for days there is that many posts. The videos by Gssixgun are very helpful and what I used while learning.

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Originally Posted by heyjude

Can you direct me to some resource that explains the details of establishing bevel and alike?

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Here's another option if it works geographically.

Check this list of members offering hands on help. Honing, stropping, shaving, whatever. If one is close to you, contact them by 'PM' by clicking on their user name and following the "private message" link. You'll never regret it!! :)

Local Help - Straight Razor Place Library

Regards,

Howard :)

A few things not covered so far are lapping your hones and that a one pass shave is passable but generally not that great.

Lapping involves flattening the hones using a lapping plate, good quality wet and dry or sand paper on a perfectly flat surface or using loose abrasive media on a perfectly flat surface. The general recommendation for a heaving this is to draw a grid on the hone with pencil, figure eight it on your lapping surface and repeating until all the pencil disappears.

If i do a one pass shave it will get me out of the door without looking homeless but it isn't a great shave, most likely patchy and certainly not smooth from every angle.

Also whilst you have posted pictures of your strop what material and treatment thereof are on each side?

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

A few things not covered so far are lapping your hones and that a one pass shave is passable but generally not that great.

Lapping involves flattening the hones using a lapping plate, good quality wet and dry or sand paper on a perfectly flat surface or using loose abrasive media on a perfectly flat surface. The general recommendation for a heaving this is to draw a grid on the hone with pencil, figure eight it on your lapping surface and repeating until all the pencil disappears.

If i do a one pass shave it will get me out of the door without looking homeless but it isn't a great shave, most likely patchy and certainly not smooth from every angle.

Also whilst you have posted pictures of your strop what material and treatment thereof are on each side?

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What exactly do you mean by treatment on a strop? You mean using a paste or something like that? In that case, I don't really use anything on it.

1) I have decided to add one more stone to my current 3000/10000 Naniwa.
Do you think 1000 grit would be enough? I'm thinking of buying a combination stone with 1000/something.
What do you recommend for a complete hone?
2) Can YOU get your razor to shave as smooth as a brand new disposable razor? In a lot of videos where people shave using a straight razor, you can hear a satisfying "crunchy" sound the razor makes when it gets in contact with the beard and a result is a near perfect shave.
That is one of the reasons why I decided to switch to str8s :) that and the possibility of using it forever ;)


Thanks to ALL of you for your advice again (y)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SirStropalot

Here's another option if it works geographically.

Check this list of members offering hands on help. Honing, stropping, shaving, whatever. If one is close to you, contact them by 'PM' by clicking on their user name and following the "private message" link. You'll never regret it!! :)

Local Help - Straight Razor Place Library

Regards,

Howard :)

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Thanks for the tip :)
I have some establishments around here that can help with that, planning to visit one in near future ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heyjude

Can YOU get your razor to shave as smooth as a brand new disposable razor? In a lot of videos where people shave using a straight razor, you can hear a satisfying "crunchy" sound the razor makes when it gets in contact with the beard and a result is a near perfect shave.
That is one of the reasons why I decided to switch to str8s :)

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It isn't likely that you'll get the same closeness with one pass using a single edge razor of any type as that which is achieved with a multi-blade cartridge razor. Basically because with every pass, the cartridge razor is really making the equivalent number of passes as it has blades.

Some guys with extremely soft or fine hair might get closer than those with tougher thicker beards. I need basically two passes (first WTG, then ATG) and a little touch-up to get BBS with a straight. With a very keen edge I can get a DFS with one pass WTG and a few touch-ups.

I have a shapton glass 500 that I use to get chipping like that out. I hone it out, draw it through some wood to rip off the foil and then go onto a 1k followed by the rest.

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Originally Posted by eKretz

It isn't likely that you'll get the same closeness with one pass using a single edge razor of any type as that which is achieved with a multi-blade cartridge razor. Basically because with every pass, the cartridge razor is really making the equivalent number of passes as it has blades.

Some guys with extremely soft or fine hair might get closer than those with tougher thicker beards. I need basically two passes (first WTG, then ATG) and a little touch-up to get BBS with a straight. With a very keen edge I can get a DFS with one pass WTG and a few touch-ups.

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My point was, can most people without some rare talent hone their Straight razors to at least be equivalent to a single blade on a cartridge razor?
I hope the answer is yes ;)

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Originally Posted by kcb5150

I have a shapton glass 500 that I use to get chipping like that out. I hone it out, draw it through some wood to rip off the foil and then go onto a 1k followed by the rest.

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Naniwa Combination Stone, CS-101/510, grit: 120/1000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

What do you think of this one? It's Naniwa so quality's gonna be fine, price is also reasonable.
Is 120 grit really different than 500? I'm given to understand that coarser grits are tougher so they remove materials faster, so I can hone remove nicks with 120 somehow faster than the time it would take me to hone with 500?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heyjude

My point was, can most people without some rare talent hone their Straight razors to at least be equivalent to a single blade on a cartridge razor?
I hope the answer is yes ;)

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Yes.

I am a more-or-less ham-handed talentless dolt and, thank you very much SRP, I am honing my own razors and getting the smoothest, longest-lasting and irritation free shaves ever in 50 years. Granted it took 250 shaves and a lot of frustration honing blades needing more than minor touch ups.

I read all I could read, watched all the videos I could watch and asked all I could ask. Altogether it wasn't worth nearly as much as a Saturday and Sunday learning hands-on from experienced honers, who, I might add, were willing to teach, answer questions and demonstrate. It also helped that there were many microscopes on site to examine results in real time. Nothing beats this to get you where you want to go in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heyjude

Naniwa Combination Stone, CS-101/510, grit: 120/1000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

What do you think of this one? It's Naniwa so quality's gonna be fine, price is also reasonable.
Is 120 grit really different than 500? I'm given to understand that coarser grits are tougher so they remove materials faster, so I can hone remove nicks with 120 somehow faster than the time it would take me to hone with 500?

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Yes you will get the nicks out quicker but leave very deep striations from a 120 stone that you then have to hone all the way out. It wouldn't take that long to just remove the nicks with a 1k and at least when you're done you can move on. When learning it is a better idea to go slowly and less aggressive as you can easily botch it with something aggressive. A 1k stone used properly can be quite quick.

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Originally Posted by heyjude

What exactly do you mean by treatment on a strop? You mean using a paste or something like that? In that case, I don't really use anything on it.yes, that is exactly what i meant, i wasn't sure if one or more of the sides may have been treated with a paste/ honing compound

1) I have decided to add one more stone to my current 3000/10000 Naniwa.
Do you think 1000 grit would be enough? I'm thinking of buying a combination stone with 1000/something.
What do you recommend for a complete hone?not that i am in any way an authority on this but i was told that 3k-10k is a workable jump, though it is quite large. i have a chosera 1k and 3,8,10 and 12k naniwas, the 12k is a well regarded hone, but whether the difference between 10 and 12k is that significant is another matter, i only bought the 12 because i was offered it reasonably cheaply from another member. I will reiterate i am no authority, i do very little honing.
2) Can YOU get your razor to shave as smooth as a brand new disposable razor? In a lot of videos where people shave using a straight razor, you can hear a satisfying "crunchy" sound the razor makes when it gets in contact with the beard and a result is a near perfect shave.
That is one of the reasons why I decided to switch to str8s :) that and the possibility of using it forever ;)
i can get a much smoother shave than with a disposable but not in one pass, the benefit is that the shave lasts longer and i find that the stubble grows through less scratchy. the sound is partly a function of the grind, heavier grinds tend to produce less noise. I have recently acquired a GEM single edge razor which gives very nice shaves, but thats probably getting a bit off topic.

Thanks to ALL of you for your advice again (y)

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see comments in red above :)

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Originally Posted by eddy79

Yes you will get the nicks out quicker but leave very deep striations from a 120 stone that you then have to hone all the way out. It wouldn't take that long to just remove the nicks with a 1k and at least when you're done you can move on. When learning it is a better idea to go slowly and less aggressive as you can easily botch it with something aggressive. A 1k stone used properly can be quite quick.

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In that case, I do not really have to use 120 grit just 1000 right?
From my limited experience 3000 grit is not rough enough to get the job done, I hope 1000 will do the job :)

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

see comments in red above :)

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Treatment is optional on strops right?
Ever since I got used to stropping, I could feel the difference between unstropped and stropped blade, so without any treatment I get a desirable sharpness on a blade just stropping by itself

Well, 3000 grit happened to be very weak, I could hone for minutes, using slight equal pressure, keeping the spine on the stone, but the nick was sitting just there!
I have decided to get this stone: Naniwa Combination Stone, CS-101/510, grit: 120/1000 | knivesandtools.co.uk
It is 120/1000 grit but I am buying it primarily for the 1000 grit side ;)

Then I will work from 1000 to 3000 to 10000 hoping to get rid of those cursed nicks

Daily stropping is done on a strop without treatment and pasted strops used for touching up edges that are starting to lag. An edge will improve after shaving with just your plain strop. Check out Gssixgun on YouTube and his breadknifing video. It is not true breadknifing and just a raised spine till the nicks are very nearly oit then work back to razor flat on the stone to finish on the 1k. Helps make it quicker. Good luck with your honing

Thanks a lot to all of you, I will see what will happen in the upcoming months and post my experiences :)

I've been honing for a few years and I've spent a lot of time and cash on honing.
I hone about 2 hours per day with all my blades and my 2 brothers larger collections I always have blades to hone.
My older brother wants me to one day show him how to hone. He thinks he can watch me for a session and then hone himself.
Its more of a skill that you have to learn on your own through practice and patients , having a passion for the art will see you through the life time of learning.
Of course the excellent people here will give you much needed advise but no one can tell how your arm and hand work in conjunction with your brain or how fast you will catch on to things.
Good luck anyway , you will get there eventually if you have the determination .