Washita..

So a good member of SRP by the name of Badgister sold me this bad boy and it arrived today.I ran it on a DMT to flatten it out and clean it up.

I want this to be a multi use stone, Sharpening razors, knives, chisels etc.

I don't plan on using it as a one stone hone.. Not practical and I'm not sure how it would work. I will try it though one day, stranger things have happened. Other then that there is some translucency to it when using a flashlight so that's always promising maybe it will be a finer stone?


So a few key questions here and maybe DaveW will jump in and save the day. Are these stones hard or will they be required to be flattened constantly? Should I break them in the same way I would a trans or surgical ark?

What are some tips and tricks for those of you who use the stone? It can be razor, knife, scissor related. I'm just looking for a little history of a Washita.
Not to toot my own horn but I think it's a beautiful stone.

Thank you Badgister, it's appreciated my friend.

Attachment 201714Attachment 201715

Crappy cellphone pics. Apologies. ( that black mark in the top right corner is marker left over no sense lapping that away if the rest of the stone is flat anyways and it won't impede my stroke.)

Try wearing in one side and use the other freshly agitated.

Yes, this ^^^^.

I recently discovered a test in some old geological text that can tell you right off the bat whether your Washita is on the coarser or finer end of the Washita grit spectrum. Water absorption.

You need to get the stone free of at least most of the oil to let the test work OK. I use Simple Green soak in a heated ultrasonic cleaner... works great. You'll need a decent scale to measure the weight. First, let the stone dry out after lapping/oil removal until the weight stabilizes. Record that as the dry weight. Then soak the stone in a tub of water until it stops gaining weight. Record that as the wet weight. (Note that with some stones this may take days). Divide wet weight by dry weight to get percentage weight change.

The stones at the finer end of the Washita spectrum will absorb enough water to change the stone weight by a percentage on the order of 0.1% and the coarsest will change the weight by an amount on the order of 6% - 7%.

I have two Washitas, one of mine is right at 0.1% - 0.2% and the other is at about 1%.

The unagitated side, I would never touch with anything other than something to clean it off (like an oily rag, etc, one that's uncontaminated). Eventually, it will be able to finish a razor. If you use that side to do heavy work on knives, though, it will eventually get out of flat. I think you'll find a light touch on the other side will be fine for knives so as to preserve the pristine side for either finishing a razor at some point or prepping it for a hard ark.

Here's my thoughts on using that side broken in. The razor off that side and then to untreated linen and strop will often be a bit rough on the first shave. a dozen or so very light strokes after the first shave (so as not to work the actual edge off of the razor) and a trip to the linen and leather again may make an edge that feels almost identical to a hard ark, but some of that probably depends on how fine the stone is cutting.

I've used that method and been surprised how smooth and sharp the razor is after a couple of trips to the linen, but it's not an "easy" method like finishing a razor on a thuringian, and it takes a little bit of luck and touch.

Just use one side for razors and one side for knives then is the consensus.

How should I break it in??' Kitchen knives ? Or what?

I would break in the fine side with hardened steel.

Congratulations thank you for sharing. Where is Badgister from and does he have any more of these Washita stones? http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ne-thread.html
MIke

I don't think he has any more. He got it at an antique store and then didn't want it and I was looking for one and he saw that so he messaged me with an offer. He's a fellow Canadian. Beauty of a stone though Attachment 201793
That's the other side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eKretz

Yes, this ^^^^.

I recently discovered a test in some old geological text that can tell you right off the bat whether your Washita is on the coarser or finer end of the Washita grit spectrum. Water absorption.

You need to get the stone free of at least most of the oil to let the test work OK. I use Simple Green soak in a heated ultrasonic cleaner... works great. You'll need a decent scale to measure the weight. First, let the stone dry out after lapping/oil removal until the weight stabilizes. Record that as the dry weight. Then soak the stone in a tub of water until it stops gaining weight. Record that as the wet weight. (Note that with some stones this may take days). Divide wet weight by dry weight to get percentage weight change.

The stones at the finer end of the Washita spectrum will absorb enough water to change the stone weight by a percentage on the order of 0.1% and the coarsest will change the weight by an amount on the order of 6% - 7%.

I have two Washitas, one of mine is right at 0.1% - 0.2% and the other is at about 1%.

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I'm not going to do this. Not because I can't but because that seems like a lot of effort and that's time I'd rather spend determining how fine it is by using it.

Theoretically yes, it would tell me how fine my Washita is in the spectrum of washita's. I just don't own a specimen from the whole spectrum of washita's or really care about the whole spectrum.

They are wonderful stones and I'm not saying I will never try this because maybe one day I will but for the time being I'm going to use it to determine its fineness.

As a matter of fact after I lapped it on my DMT I used it as a bevel setter for 2 razors a dovo and a bocmoc and then followed it on the bocmoc with a coticule a bbw and then another coticule and came out well
and the dovo I went Washita > coticule

Both are going to be test shaved after I pick up my domino's and have dinner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MODINE

Congratulations thank you for sharing. Where is Badgister from and does he have any more of these Washita stones? http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ne-thread.html
MIke

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Mike, have you forgotten me already? You bought that puma special from me recently:p
Solitarysoldier, you cleaned it up quite well. That rock is quite hard!

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Originally Posted by Badgister

Mike, have you forgotten me already? You bought that puma special from me recently:p
Solitarysoldier, you cleaned it up quite well. That rock is quite hard!

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DMT DIA-FLAT
Made for lapping anything!

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

DMT DIA-FLAT
Made for lapping anything!

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+1 for the DiaFlat. It eats trans arks and les lat hybrids.
It's also good for conditioning stones like your washita. I keep the bottom of my washita freshly lapped off the DiaFlat to keep it cutting fast, and the top stays smooth for further refinement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dcaddo1

+1 for the DiaFlat. It eats trans arks and les lat hybrids.
It's also good for conditioning stones like your washita. I keep the bottom of my washita freshly lapped off the DiaFlat to keep it cutting fast, and the top stays smooth for further refinement.

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It's worth the $200 + without a doubt. That's what I plan on doing with mine too!

Now for an update both razors shaved well. They weren't spectacular and I brought them back for a touch up but I noticed that after using the Washita the scratch pattern is much finer then one of my coticules with only water.

Can anyone speculate why this would be?Attachment 201863
Washita
Attachment 201864
Coticule in question

Attachment 201865
One that I used to finish razor

There is a definite difference in feels and I equate that to different veins. But I have trouble finishing with the coticule in question for whatever reason it seems to leave larger scratches then the Washita.
All stones at 30x mag via holding the loupe up to my cellphone camera so they aren't the best pictures but you can tell the differences.

Is the coti in question a pink la Dressante? I have one that looks very similar that's a very fast stone. The faster stones can be tricky to use, especially to finish on

With a stone that is faster and trickier to finish on, I have found that stropping, then returning to the stone again for some very light finishing strokes improves the edge tremendously.

It is a pink la dressante super quick stone. That's a good idea badgister I find it leaves scratch marks though

I think your coticule is a bit coarse. Badgister's comment looks very familar to me (and I agree with it 100%)! I have a very fine brownish colored washita (probably discolored from old oil), and I know it's finer than all but one of the coticules I've ever tried.

If the shave isn't satisfactory from the washita tomorrow, give the razor a brisk linen, then very light strokes on the stone and not many, and then strop and shave. That brings more improvement off of my washita than it seems to with the coticule.

Awesome I'll give it a try on another razor I've got. I find that one of my coticules is quite fast and therefor coarse but my other one which has a texture of be last photo is a fine finisher. It is frustrating and fun at the same time. Currently don't own linen strop. The best I've got is suede leather. It's a sad day for me :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badgister

Mike, have you forgotten me already? You bought that puma special from me recently:p
Solitarysoldier, you cleaned it up quite well. That rock is quite hard!

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It’s just my way of politely saying are you sure that is a Washita stone. Unless I missed the Washita label it looks very similar to another type of natural stone from Canada IMHO.
Mike

Prior hone wear pattern indicates specific tool usage. Before lapping.
http://i.imgur.com/VEI0Xi7.jpg

after lapping hard stone.
http://i.imgur.com/WqIs22y.jpg

Amazing aggressive cutting action from this natural stone is faster that a Norton 4K.
http://i.imgur.com/nWJ8SB1.jpg

So you are saying I don't have a washita? A Magog oilstone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MODINE

It’s just my way of politely saying are you sure that is a Washita stone. Unless I missed the Washita label it looks very similar to another type of natural stone from Canada IMHO.
Mike

Prior hone wear pattern indicates specific tool usage. Before lapping.
http://i.imgur.com/VEI0Xi7.jpg

after lapping hard stone.
http://i.imgur.com/WqIs22y.jpg

Amazing aggressive cutting action from this natural stone is faster that a Norton 4K.
http://i.imgur.com/nWJ8SB1.jpg

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That looks almost identical to the stone I've got colour and all. Now I'm very confused on what I've got. Please enlighten me if you know what it is. It could be a washita or something else??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MODINE

It’s just my way of politely saying are you sure that is a Washita stone. Unless I missed the Washita label it looks very similar to another type of natural stone from Canada IMHO.
Mike

Prior hone wear pattern indicates specific tool usage. Before lapping.
http://i.imgur.com/VEI0Xi7.jpg

after lapping hard stone.
http://i.imgur.com/WqIs22y.jpg

Amazing aggressive cutting action from this natural stone is faster that a Norton 4K.
http://i.imgur.com/nWJ8SB1.jpg

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Mike, I cannot be sure what type of stone it is. I had asked the gents in this forum, and the consensus seemed to suggest it is a washita.
But given it looks practically identical to your Canadian stone, and I bought it in an antique shop in the Montérégie region of Quebec an hour away from Magog, I would say your guess is better than mine.

This one pictured is a great natural mid-range stone from Canada, whatever it’s called. This is a good stone to use after 1K bevel set to prep edge for a natural progression. Use with oil or water. 5 to 10 passes with a razor will start to darken slurry. Use a good Coti after this stone to further improve edge.
Mike

http://i.imgur.com/FAh0ies.jpg

Thanks Mike that has been what I have been doing using a nice fine coti to finish the edge. It has worked well so far. So it's fair to call this a Magog? At this point I don't think so as it could be a washita as they come in many different styles and colours. I'll never know what I have I guess but it's really word against word at this point. Some will say washita some will say Magog. I researched and it's been debated before. Whatever it is I'm going to fiddle with it and see what it is and try and get a shave off of it. Whatever it is it's a great stone. I don't plan on selling it.

I've never seen a for certain picture of a magog, does anyone have one with a label or whatever else?

It's possible that something else is like the pike mine stones, but I haven't seen anything. The slurry I get off of a washita while using oil is sort of a dull yellowish slurry, but that doesn't mean every one of them is.

Washita stones from arkansas were sold everywhere in the US and europe, and I'd chance it that most anything else that looked like a washita is probably a washita.

I have norton labeled stones that are mottled, just like the stones in this thread, and I have unlabeled stones. The only difference I can see is that sometimes the unlabeled stones can be on the fine side, which would've been undesirable back when the lilywhites were sold because they don't make a good one-stone solution.

Attachment 202047Attachment 202048 all of these are washita hones.two of them are unlabeled lilly whites I bought from a carpenter.cheers . I have to take his word of course.the darker little one is boarder line translucent and has very tiny pores.

I'm with you guys not totally convinced the stone I've got is mottled and not speckled with the butterscotch and beige like modines. We will never know for sure however I'm thinking after looking at my stone closely and honing on it I don't think it's a Canadian oilstone. It has translucence at the edges and Dave has said that the finer washitas are like that. Maybe it's a rare specimen of a washita who knows. I'm not discounting your thoughts modine because it could be but if we both posted more photos of our stones we would notice they are not the same type of stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blistersteel

Attachment 202047Attachment 202048 all of these are washita hones.two of them are unlabeled lilly whites I bought from a carpenter.cheers . I have to take his word of course.the darker little one is boarder line translucent and has very tiny pores.

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You're smaller one has the same pattern as my large one. How is it?

It is fine and slow compared to most of my washita stones.if you use it as a stand alone hone I do 3-4 back honing strokes and then linen and leather. It isn't going to replace my Surgical blacks but it is a passable substitute if needed.

So you have finished off of it before?

With back hone strokes yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blistersteel

With back hone strokes yes.

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Did you get a cowboy shave with it? I tried with mine and it was a rough but bearable one pass shave.

I back honed 4-8 strokes, stropped on my linen then 2 or so more feather light strokes then 50 on linen and 25 on leather. Made a nice enough two pass shave. Nothing like my surgical black but very OK.

I'll give it another go then and post back.