Honing questions!

First off hello friends! I've lurked this site a long time and never posted, but I broke down today and made an account...

So for honing ive been using a norton 4/8k, .3 mic lapping film on polished marble with a beveled edge, and the balsa from whipped dog. and i have a normal leather strop un-pasted..

1st off i cannot seem to get past hht (i get light violin/or a really "forced" cut of the hair) on the 8k without a few passes on the strop is that normal? Although after stropping i have had a FAIRLY decent shave off of the 8k on a gold dollar,and a wester bro's.

and 2nd off, i'd really like to replace the lapping film with a stone, and i really like the way the yellow coticule sounds, but in all honesty, am i going to be disappointed coming off of the lapping film edge? the film has no mojo and im not a big fan of the feedback on it.

3rd, how picky should you be on a bevel setter, i would rather not fully bevel set a razor again on the 4k as it took forever and i really like that stone so i dont want to wear it out too fast. is a king 1k sufficient or should i shoot for a more quality set up?

and finally, is the balsa wood a long term keeper or is a pasted strop far superior for a CrOx/IrOx set up?

my edges are getting better each try because of all the lurking on other peoples threads, but i figured i needed some help finally.


All input is appreciated!

I forgot to add that i have a soft, and a mild white and off-white arkansas stone set that i use for knives, but as they are oil stones (and cut so slow), i should stay away from using those as bevel setters right?

i just figured moving from oil to water didn't make sense, but i'm no expert.

Hello and welcome to SRP!
Most people who hone have a 1K hone to set the bevel on.
4/8K hone to the medium work and then there is a finishing hone (10K and up)
People also use a DMT 325 grit to flatten their hones. Acquire your hones over time.

I know someone with a lot more experience will chime in soon enough.

Coticules are very nice. Being a natural stone.... they have a little bit of learning curve to them. Each one is different from the next.
Always take the time to learn what your hones can do. It's a fun journey.

Good luck in your honing adventures!

Thanks, ive been lapping with the marble/400grit wet dry, does the dmt produce nicer results?

1 that's perfectly normal. The Hht only means something if YOU can get repeatable results. It's not a standard test every ones hair is a little different. So its a gauge for you to determine where your edges are.

2. The coticule will be different. Not necessarily better or worse. But you can finish off it. So its up to your personal taste. I like the ones I've got a lot. Actually they are my favourite finishers.

3. The king 1k will serve you well. There are better bevel setters out there. But it's cheap efficient and reliable. So unless you open up a sharpening business you should be perfectly happy with the king.

The last question I can't help you with. I suppose both work. If I use a paste I usually use a paddle strop.

And no the dmt don't produce nicer results. It's easier to use and it doubles as a coarse stone. But for lapping you won't notice a difference in the stones.

Unfortunately I can not comment on the coticule as I have no experience with one.

The king is a solid performer if you like lapping constantly. After lapping it cuts really fast but quickly loses its tooth.

I use a naniwa 12k and spray crox on polyester webbing to finish. I use 10ish laps on the crox strop. My edges are pretty stellar with this set up.

With my 8k I can pass an hht with coarser hair. It means little but I know which hair and how it should cut if my edge is where I like it.

I think you are better served getting your edge as sharp as possible on 1k and in your case a 4k. Without a properly apexing the bevel you're just gonna be spinning your wheels.

If your still learning the 4/8 ,my oh need to stick with it till you have it mastered, you said that there getting better , so you ain't there yet, if you've been lurking you have see n glens signature, if not look it up , you need to learn what you have before you move on , and the Gold Dollar ? Have you used a shave ready razor yet to compare what your shaving with? And don't put any faith in the HHT. Good luck. Tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

If your still learning the 4/8 ,my oh need to stick with it till you have it mastered, you said that there getting better , so you ain't there yet, if you've been lurking you have see n glens signature, if not look it up , you need to learn what you have before you move on , and the Gold Dollar ? Have you used a shave ready razor yet to compare what your shaving with? And don't put any faith in the HHT. Good luck. Tc

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I have used a shave ready, i have a Wester brothers honed by Larry from whipped dog, to see what i should eventually be able to attain, was shipped with a very keen edge (also possibly the worlds best customer service).

The gold dollar was simply to see if i could set a bevel as i did not want to destroy larry's, or any other nicer razors i plan on getting. it took forever on the 4k.

Glen is GSsix gun yes? i found him on youtube for JANorton its what convinced me to get that stone he's a very skilled man.

Thanks for everyones input on this!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jfk742

Unfortunately I can not comment on the coticule as I have no experience with one.

The king is a solid performer if you like lapping constantly. After lapping it cuts really fast but quickly loses its tooth.

I use a naniwa 12k and spray crox on polyester webbing to finish. I use 10ish laps on the crox strop. My edges are pretty stellar with this set up.

With my 8k I can pass an hht with coarser hair. It means little but I know which hair and how it should cut if my edge is where I like it.

I think you are better served getting your edge as sharp as possible on 1k and in your case a 4k. Without a properly apexing the bevel you're just gonna be spinning your wheels.

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I didn't want to sound weird by saying that but i know exactly what you mean, when i dilute the slurry and go straight water on larry's pre honed edge, i can get certain hairs to softly ping off the 8k.

Also, sorry for the late reply, had to run some errands this morning.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

this will give you answers to questions you didnt even know you had. I found a lot of the good techniques work well for other synthetics as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jfk742

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

this will give you answers to questions you didnt even know you had. I found a lot of the good techniques work well for other synthetics as well.

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WOW, i only saw his youtube stuff, This is very informative, and clears up most everything about the norton, Is he a professional honemeister? Or dedicated hobbyist?

EDIT* I saw he is a vendor in the other thread, look forward to doing business one day!

A Norton 4k is an aggressive stone and unless the razor has issued, like a stabilizer that is hitting the stone, a common GD issue, should easily re-set a bevel not that much slower than a 1k, unless you are doing repair work.

Most any 1k will easily set a bevel, but the Nortons and Nanawia are proven performers for the money, though a King will deliver the same results, just different feel and smaller footprint, the price difference is not that much, it is a lifetime purchase.

Photos will help, as I suspect your issue may be the razor, not the 4K, which is why Gold Dollars are not recommended for learning to hone.

What magnification are you using?

An 8K to .3um (50K) is a very big jump, I would try 1um flim between the 8K and .03. Also using a sheet of copy paper under the .3 or 1um will better polish the edge.

I doubt that a Coticule will deliver a finer edge than your 8k and will be more difficult to learn.

Learn on a synthetic progression, then play with the naturals.

Ya I recently read that some coticules finish at a 6k equivalent so idk I think I got distracted by how nice they look and that natural edge hype. No magnification (for edge checking I assume?) I am definitely putting something before the .3 now that you mention it 8 to 30k probably will take a quite a few laps to get a noticeable difference. And again thanks for the input i will be at it again Monday. The shoulder on the gold dollar is getting ground down this weekend then I will dull and re-hone, any other lower end razors (sub 100.00) that are good for bevel practice?
Sorry for all the questions I'm long winded.

It's been said on SRP before you should be getting comfortable clean shaves off the 8 before moving on to a finisher. Glen himself would tell you that :p

+1 to the above. Check out the classifieds for a cheaper good quality razor

Thanks fellas went back at it again the past few days grinded the shoulder off of the gold dollar and re honed it and re did the wester as well decent shave, I'll get there one day if only my face would grow hair faster and I could shave 2x a day I would learn faster, also had a question about re-honing, if I'm not satisfied with an edge should I dull it (glass or side of the stone swipe) and reset the bevel or just try and touch up?

If you are sure that the bevel is set then just go from a higher grit the only reason to dull it is if you are unsure of the bevel

First of all welcome! :)

I'll address your points as you wrote them, hopefully this will be of some help!

1) I personally would forget the HHT as a test as its totally subjective. The example I always trot out is of taking one of my DD's (which take insane edges) and trying the HHT - I get a pass about 60% of the time, my dad got a pass 100% of the time and a mate of mine couldnt get it to work at all. But the shave was epic! So thats really the only test that matters, if it shaves good then its good. If it doesnt, it isnt!

I will also caveat that with the statement by saying that GD's can be a bit finicky edge wise and can be very difficult to hone due to the varying build quality. By no means am I an expert but I've honed ~35 of them and have found them to be very varied.

2) Re finishers, I've used coti's in the past and had one for a time (it was a coti/BBW combo) and I ended up not keeping it. I reckon Thuringians give much smoother edges (IMHO) and are of comparable cost. A finisher isnt really adding much in the way of sharpness but they do add the smoothness, so you want to get whatever adds the most smoothness for you. If theres someone in your area who can sit down with you and show you the edges on a few razors thats always useful!

I ended up getting an Asagi a while back which is my main go-to finisher, and that was purely off the back of a DD I got from holli4pirating which he'd honed on the same stone. Wicked sharp and an edge like butter.

3) I would be very picky with your bevel setter! Its the stone that does the most work and provides the foundation for every other stone in the progression to work from, so you want to make sure its a good one.

Ironically they're usually the cheapest stone as well, but we all get excited about Eschers and what not which cost 10 times as much hehe! :)

My picks would be either the Shapton on glass 1k or the Chosera 1k. TBH if I had to stick to just one it would probably be the Chosera as it plays well with every other make of stone (which the Shaptons dont, they work better with other Shaptons), they cut quickly like the Shaptons do and they dont dish out like the Naniwa SS do.

4) Balsa wood works well with CrOx as it has some give but not too much, so I think you should be fine with that TBH.

And re the Arkansas stones, I've not used them myself so sadly cant comment! Generally I would say keep those separate for your knives as you hone razors and knives in a different way, thats what I do and it seems to work for me! YMMV of course.

Hope that was of some help!

Thanks a lot for the input I'm putting less faith in the hht for sharpness and more for if I have done I should meet or exceed previous testing, and the balsa wood I'm going to repaste and keep on trucking. And I think my blades are sharp enough but I'm not sure if I'm getting a sawtooth edge or maybe the keenness of the edge off of the lapping film is irritating my chin after I slash away at my chin hairs of steel (seriously de feather blades tug a bit down there) and causes some irritation, I'm pretty careful with the blade and I've shaved a bunch (few months-every day) so Ive got so much hype on a natural edge everyone raves about irritation free shaving.

And lastly I did kind of pick up on the 1k stone prices I'm not really saving a ton by buying a king so I will definitely take up your advice on going for a chosera, or maybe a Norton 1k. And for the finishers sadly I know no one else who uses straights so I'm in the dark on this one.
You guys "rock" (are bad puns allowed?)

Bowne out

Update, got another strop and a sheet of leather otw to make some, threw some paste on it, .25 diamond.
Taped my edges and rehoned the gold dollar after being grinded, DFS afterward.
The one from Mr. larry still shaves like a champ after its initial re-hone by myself. Im getting the hang of it, thanks to all who gave advice and helped me out!

Also i ordered a coticule, it just bothered me not to have it... no clue why...

Also i ordered a coticule, it just bothered me not to have it... no clue why...[/QUOTE]


I know exactly what you mean, been honing a year now and just got my first Coti a month ago.

I have no idea how there got to be three now!

Haha well congrats on startin a little collection. Those rocks exude mojo. Can't wait for mine to show up

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Originally Posted by Bowneuscg

Also i ordered a coticule, it just botheted me not to have it... no clue why...

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Sounds like you fell head first down the rabbit hole. Good luck with your new addition

Haha thanks!