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What is the general consensus on the grit range of a hard arkansas? Not a black, not a translucent, just a standard knife sharpening Smith stone.
Curious if anybody uses these as a 'barber hone' for touch ups.
I also have a nice black one. Never tried it on a razor and also kind of curious where this one fall in the grit range.
Thanks
I've read that regardless of the hardness (density) of an Arkansas stone, the grit size is about three microns.
Particles are 3-5 microns, but they are bonded together. It's the density of the stone that will describe how finely it cuts, because globs of 5 micron particles can work together like a larger particle in a soft arkansas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
At any rate, stones that are described as "hard", but without being a true hard stone are generally prefinishers. those would be arkansas stones that are not washita stones, and that have some porosity on the surface.
you can finish with some of them, but you'll have better luck with a true hard (which unfortunately costs several times as much).
As Dave said, you need a Translucent or Surgical Black finisher to touch up. A 6 or even a 4 inch is fine for a barber hone, type touch up honing. Many folks used them for years to maintain a razor.
Here is a nice 4X2 in. old, oil soaked translucent, I picked up at an antique flea market for a few bucks.
I bought a Yellow Green and Black Thüringen and the Translucent for $21.
The Translucent reeked of rancid oil. I sprayed and scrubbed with oven cleaner and have the 3 soaking in simple green. It will remove all the oil from the Translucent…eventually. It will make a great touch up stone just bevel the edges, no lapping, is it super smooth and burnished from years of use.
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Although a hard black or translucent is best, a regular hard Arkansas (once it's well broken in) can also do an excellent job of finishing a razor. I have all three types, but usually use my regular hard Arkansas for that job.
How about one called the "black hard surgical Arkansas" stone? Can that one be used as a "finisher" to touch up and maintain a straight?
Surgical is just a marketing term. It's something that halls and some others use on their stones, but all black arkansas stones without pores are of the same class, surgical term or not. I guess as people try to differentiate themselves we may end up getting even wackier things, like surgical in patient and surgical outpatient.
What matters more is where the stone comes from. The dans black stones are very good (but expensive if 8x2x1 size). they can be found in half inch thickness for a decent price and sometime a steal. They also have wood mounted 6x2x1/2 (sometimes they're thinner than 1/2) stones that show up on places like sierra trading post for very cheap (like $30). There's no difference in finishing quality of a 6x2 thin bargain wood mounted stone and a $150 8x2x1 stone. I've had both.
Natural whetstone's "trans black" is good (I haven't tried the regular black). Halls stones are OK, but the old ones were out of flat, and the company got sold and the street price went way up (used to be able to get them at a deep discount if you were willing to do the lapping). I think the stuff that comes out of dans mines is better.
I haven't heard anything good about the inexpensive black stone that woodcraft sells under their house brand (not to be confused with the fabulous mujingfang phig).
Nortons are OK, both types, and when their trans is available, it's inexpensive.
If you can find vintage off the internet, especially the old bone colored trans stones or the old translucent nortons, that is probably the only way you'll get a deal.
Anyway, it's more about the company and the mine than it is the name (as in, Dan's black doesn't resort to calling itself surgical, but it's a better stone than the halls surgical - though the halls surgical is decent, too if flat, just not better than the dans).
Thanks for the responses. My black Arkansas should do well. I will try it soon. The other Arkies may have to wait until I'm feeling more ambitious.
The sets I have are cheapo's from Blade HQ and come in a wooden box. The Soft and Hard came as a "kit" with oil in a wooden box and the Black "surgical" came separate but also in a wooden box. All stones are about 4x2x1/2 roughly! After reading your post, I am guessing that these won't be any good so I shouldn't bother with them at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Thx.
Always check! You never know. At one point, I assumed all black arkansas stones were good stone, but several people have told me those small stones were not nearly as fine cutting as known good stones.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMike
They're novaculite, your stones, so you can't really hurt anything trying them out. Since I haven't tried them myself, I don't know if the people who mentioned the stones didn't condition them right or if they're just bad. I make that point only because the NW "black trans" and the dans black stones as well as translucents from various manufacturers never get bad press.
Post a Pic.
There are tons, of very long thread on Arks on this site. Go to the Hones forum for more info that you want. Or Advanced Search.
It all depends on “your” stone and how it is prepped.
Here is a pic of the small Arkansas set (soft, hard and black hard (surgical?) I am referring to regarding if it is enough to hone a straight and/or to refresh a straight!
Thx.
Looks like a nice black, yes it could maintain a razor once properly prepared.
If it is smooth lap it with Wet & Dry from 220 up to 2K, then burnish with hard flat carbon steel 2-300 laps. Get the surface as smooth as glass.
It will finish a good 8 or 12k edge or revive a flagging edge. You will have to do circles and 100 laps, but will leave a nice edge.
If not burnished it will cut faster but, not polish as fine an edge. You can move through the grits fairly quickly if you use a progression and not make large jumps in grit.
I maintained a razor for 10 years on a 6X2 in translucent years ago.
The regular black stone from Natural Whetstone can be used as a finisher. I have a 3x8x1 that puts a nice edge on a razor. They are a good value too.
Ever heard of a Norton White Arkansas stone?
If you are referring to a Norton Lily White stone then yes. I have one. It seems to be a middle to high-middle stone that cuts pretty fast and it seems to me that the slurry is friable and breaks down. I haven't shaved off from it yet since I follow up with a translucent but I think I could and someday may try to but for now I am loving the edge off my translucent so much I just can't help myself but to finish everything with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMike
Yea, some like the Lilly White, are capable of producing a shaving edge, not as fine an edge as a Translucent or Surgical Black.
I’ve had one soaking in Simple Green, for about a year, was black when I bought it and is pure white now.
The one I am referring to I dont think is called a "lily white" and it seems translucent. If I am wrong, please let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel
See pics below! In the second pic it is the top one that fits in the box.
Thx.
Yup, looks like one. Needs to be finished like a black ark, flattened and smoothed on a progression up to 2k, then burnished, for razor use.
Translucent and surgical blacks are equally capable of producing very nice shaving edge.
Do not go by grit rating. Go by the shaving edge.
Test it first, if it's smooth and looks like it has been used, it may produce and edge. If not then prep it.
BTW, yours looks pretty thin, if you drop it or bang it against something hard, they will shatter like tempered glass.
Glue it to a block of wood or cut up nylon cutting board, if you plan on using it.
Okay, thanks for the info!Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
