Shapton Question

I've had the Norton stones for a long time, but I just got a series of Glass Shaptons from a friend for dirt cheap. I really want to like these stones because they need so much less lapping and it's a cool system. However, the stones I am using are incredibly slow in comparison to the Nortons. I've spent about 3 times the amount of time trying to set a bevel with the Shapton on identical razors than I do with the Norton. Looking at the grit comparison table they are about even in level. I searched for comments about the issue and I mostly just came up with threads from newbies asking which to buy. Has anyone else had the same issue? Am I just insane? Well, I know I'm insane, but is this issue unique to me? From what I have read people consider the Glass Shaptons a fast stone...

I have only used the Shapton Glass 16K and found it to be a fast stone, it also needed quite a bit of lapping right out of the box.
You probably already have, but make sure that your stones are freshly lapped and flat. I have heard that these stones are fast, if yours are not I would expect that they just need a good lapping.

The advantage of the Shapton GS over the Norton is not so much "Speed" but the fact that the striations are more shallow, which is less stressful on the steel..

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The advantage of the Shapton GS over the Norton is not so much "Speed" but the fact that the striations are more shallow, which is less stressful on the steel..

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Interesting, I hadn't thought of it this way. Perhaps I should not be using them to remove chips and such on rehab razors. Maybe I should be doing heavy lifting with the Nortons and the "normal" progression with the Shaptons?

Yep, they have been lapped well and I generally check and if needed lap them prior to each session. They have mostly remained flat for the last couple weeks. I do hate lapping mid session, but maybe they need to be lapped/cleaned out more often than nortons to keep cutting well? I usually refresh the water and rub them down with a finger which seems to clear them quite a bit. Maybe I should be running the lapping plate over them instead?

So which shapton GS's do you have.

I have the shapton system (500, 1,2,4,8,16k) and they are very consistent reliable stones. The nortons are different in the binder that I think they are softer, thus releasing more slurry. At least the norton 4k and less. But when comparing different brand stones is like comparing a dog with a cat as a pet. Both are good pets and both serve the purpose of a pet. but the owners most of the time will have a preference as to which is the best pet and most of the time it comes to which works for you and what your used to.

As Gssixgun said the way the shaptons cut are different than the nortons. And the shaptons are truly fast stones an you will be removing more material than you think you are. But it all comes down to learning what your stones do. And really speed is not all that important if you know what it takes for your stones to do the job. For example, a shapton 16 will only require 10 to 20 MAX strokes before you find edge failure. A Gokumyo 20 may take 30 to 40 to finish and an ark may take 60 to 100+. Its all up to what you learn about your own style and stones. But rest assured I personally prefer the shaptons over the nortons though I know both will do the job. But really my favorite is a jnat with mikawa progression IMHO.

I suppose the question is more geared towards removing chips from a blade, and initial bevel setting. I have had plenty of success in simply re-sharpening a blade that already has a bevel on the Shaptons. I haven't loved the feel of them yet, but I am playing with different ways to finish off them. On the other hand, a blade I removed the rust or a chip from from and took up to a mirror finish with sand paper/polish seems to take forever with the Shaptons. The nortons make very quick work of blades in comparison. To specify which shapton glass stones I have, 220, 500, 1000, 4000, 8000, 16000, and 30000. I think an accurate estimate for me was 1 stroke on the norton 1k was equal to 3 strokes on the shapton 1k as far as metal removed/progress made.

Even though you got a good deal, I would use the Nortons for chips and bevel setting. Keep lapping the Shapton and you will be replacing it too soon.

I use the Shapton Glass 1, 4,8,16,30K. for my razor work. I find the 1K is a fast cutter if I apply a little pressure. I use my fingers on the blade when setting bevels or removing chips in the edge.

I dropped a Lewis razor and put a ding, at least equal to most bad chips. I decided to remove the ding/chip using only the Shapton glass stones. I accomplished the removal on the Shapton 220. But, it took many - many strokes and time.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...5-dropped.html

The Shapton glass stones when used aggressively have a tendency to load up and glaze over. I learned that to use them for grunt work takes a lot of lapping and cleaning.

As to producing great polished and comfortable edges, they're at the top of the heap with other great stones. Some of my favorite hones. :D But, for aggressive metal removal, not so much.

DMT8C's, your Norton and other coarse fast cutting hones
get the job done much faster. For the rest of the honing progession I think you'll love the Shaptons. :)

Regards,

Howard :)

I have both the Norton 4k & 8k and the Sharpton 4k, 8k, 12k & 30k. I prefer the Sharpton. I use mostly the 8k, 12k and 30k for the perfect finishing. I like the feel of the Sharpton because it is harder, smoother and when you get the edge, the blade tends to stick on the stone telling you your done. I do not like the grit on the Norton's and find that it is easier to get a more polished edge after stropping with the Sharpton. A lot will depend on how you use them. Using a 40 circular light motions forward and back and 20 light pressure laps on the 8k and 20 light pressure laps on the 12k and 10 light pressure laps on the 30k on the Sharptons leaves an amazing edge. I use 20 laps on a modular strop and your all set. The Sharpton 12k and 30k are fantastic for refreshing. 7 to 10 light pressure laps and your good for months.

Do you mean Shapton?

I'm not sure which hones you are describing. Did you mean the Pro or the Glass Stones? Neither of those series have a 12k version as far as I know.

Sorry, trying to do 2 things at once. Yes, it is the glass Shapton stones and I use the 16k not the 12 k.

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Originally Posted by bpatton

I suppose the question is more geared towards removing chips from a blade, and initial bevel setting. I have had plenty of success in simply re-sharpening a blade that already has a bevel on the Shaptons. I haven't loved the feel of them yet, but I am playing with different ways to finish off them. On the other hand, a blade I removed the rust or a chip from from and took up to a mirror finish with sand paper/polish seems to take forever with the Shaptons. The nortons make very quick work of blades in comparison. To specify which shapton glass stones I have, 220, 500, 1000, 4000, 8000, 16000, and 30000. I think an accurate estimate for me was 1 stroke on the norton 1k was equal to 3 strokes on the shapton 1k as far as metal removed/progress made.

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I've been a Shapton GS user for quite some time, longer than most. Something sounds off. Have you lapped your 1K GS stone with a diamond plate like a DMT8C or 12C? I personally don't even use my 220, 500, or 1K on my razors, I use them on my knives. I use my Chosera 1K, then 2,4,8,16K Shapton GS, followed by whatever finisher fits the razor. Something is tickling my mind that your stone, has your stone ever had contact with oil or anything other than water? Shapton GS stones are top shelf, consistent stones. They like a lot of water, lots of water equals little or no loading up.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Do you mean Shapton?

I'm not sure which hones you are describing. Did you mean the Pro or the Glass Stones? Neither of those series have a 12k version as far as I know.

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The J/market Pro is called 12k but it's analagous to the US 15k.

@ OP I'm having trouble with the idea of any Shapton being slow :thinking: