Shapton Pro Stones VS Shapton Kuromaku

So i've been doing my research about the differences in these stones and what i get from people at shapton is that they are made to be more adaptable to our climate rather than japans. I also hear people say that they have the kuromaku and don't have any issues with them. But what I'm actually wondering is if there is someone out there that has used both the pro stones and the kuromaku stones and get some input if they really are just the same exact stone but shapton is jacking up the price for the US market. Also i have heard that both the 12k kuromaku and the 15k pro is the same stone itself. i actually have both sets of stones on the way but being that I'm a newbie to the sharpening world I'm not really going to be able to tell if there is a difference and know which ones to send back to Amazon. I'd really like to get some input on this so that i can possibly save some money

Thanks guys!
Fonz

??????? I don't know about these stones but personally dislike anyone that plans to buy two to return one.:shrug:

I bought both sets of the stones, one for the kuromaku series and the pro series just so I could compare them myself since u can't just drive around the corner to Walmart to look at them yourself lol... I'm curious to know what makes you dislike people just based on that??

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

So i've been doing my research about the differences in these stones a I'm not really going to be able to tell if there is a difference and know which ones to send back to Amazon.
Thanks guys!
Fonz

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I admit I have edited this......

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

I'm curious to know what makes you dislike people just based on that??

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You have implied that you are buying two sets of stones with the clear intention of returning one of them. Rather than doing some research via asking questions here before your purchase, you have chosen basically to rent one set of hones for free and then return them, in which case they will no longer be able to be sold as new. This is not very like-able behavior.

To be clear, I'm still glad that you have joined and chosen to ask a question. Personally I'm just not a fan of your purchasing strategy.

In answer to your question, I suspect, but do not know, that the two series are quite similar. I have only used the Pro series but the other is described as the Japanese version of the Pro series. I highly doubt that there will be much difference between them.

What honing experience do you have? Which hones within each series did you buy?

I only still have the Shapton Pro 1k and still really like it as a bevel setter.

The Shapton Kuromaku line, from what I understand, is the Shapton Pro line in Japan. If shipped outside of Japan, the warranty is void - the same applies to someone in Japan ordering a Shapton Pro from the US, the warranty is void.
I've never had to use the Shapton warranty replacement, but I don't mind paying the extra for it.

One of my friends has a set of Kuromaku and when I tried them they worked just like the Pro line. The scratch patterns looked the same under magnification. While honing, the sound and feel were the same.

Shapton claims that the two lines are formulated differently to account for differing weather conditions between Japan and the US. I'm not sure that I believe that explanation. I think it is just a marketing ploy.

Hi Dafonz,

First of all, welcome to the forum from another Coloradan.

I have to admit that I had a similar reaction to your post. I suppose that if your plan was to just look at the hones and gather info on the hones, make a decision and then return the unused hones, there would be nothing really wrong with your plan.

I think part of the reaction comes from the fact that to really know anything about the hones they would need to be lapped and actually used to hone something. You will not be able to tell anything by just looking at them. So I think when someone who has honing experience hears that you are going to compare the stones and send back a set, they assume that you will be returning lapped and used stones. That is the part that goes against my grain.

I'll give your the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're new to honing, did not realize that you were going to have to lap and use the stones to tell anything, and that your plan is what I described in the first paragraph.

Anyway welcome to the forum

@bluesman7 Lol yeah if you open and use the hone from Amazon you can no longer return the item. I am new to honing and was buy them to look at them before I made a decision. The reason I'm spending more on the shaptons is because I first bought stones called taidea which were rather cheap stones and I wasn't getting the edge I was looking for. I know I should assume that it's not the hone but actually the honer but seeing how I really am starting to enjoy freehand sharpening I thought it would be worth the purchase...

@utopian I didn't plan on using the hone because then it would be unreturnable... I could understand your distaste of my intentions you implied but it wasn't the case. In all honesty though, I could see your concern if my purchase was though a mom and pops type store... It wasn't the case it's though a multi billion dollar industry called Amazon... But I guess some people have to look out for the little guys...

Another thing if you could help me bluesman7.... How do I get the originally posted at the top of my reply so people know who or what I'm replying to?

Thanks for actually answering my question that was really helpful... Do you happen to know if there is a difference between the 12k kuromaku and the 15k pro? I've had people tell me they are the same but not use both of them

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

Another thing if you could help me bluesman7.... How do I get the originally posted at the top of my reply so people know who or what I'm replying to?

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Click "Reply With Quote"

I think this is the answer to your question if I understood the question.

You can also click "Edit" to reword/clarify your original post but this act must be done fairly quickly. Not sure of the timing Gugi/Bruno have put on edits.

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

Thanks for actually answering my question that was really helpful... Do you happen to know if there is a difference between the 12k kuromaku and the 15k pro? I've had people tell me they are the same but not use both of them

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There is a 'reply with quote' option at the bottom of the text box. If you want to multi quote (IOW more than one previous post) you check the box on the older post (lower right corner) and just reply with quote on the latest one.

The Shapton Pro 12k, sold at Japan Tool, is identical to the Shapton 15k. As previously stated, the Pro series is under warranty in the USA, the 12k is supposed to be sold in Japan only, and the warranty is not applicable through Shapton if it is sold in the USA. I imagine, not sure, that Japan Tool would warranty the 12k if it proved defective. That to the original buyer.

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

Thanks for actually answering my question that was really helpful... Do you happen to know if there is a difference between the 12k kuromaku and the 15k pro? I've had people tell me they are the same but not use both of them

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They are two different types of stones made with two different types of binders. Under high magnification you can see a difference between the stones. When honing, I couldn't tell a difference between the feel or sound of the two.
When used as finishers, I couldn't tell a difference between the two when test shaving.
This is not that surprising because the difference in grit sizes between the two is only 0.2 microns.

The confusion between these two stones goes back about 10 years. In the beginning there was just the 12k Kuromaku and there was no 15k pro. People in the desert southwest USA, kept having their 12ks crack. So the company reformulated the 12k Kuromaku with a new binder and heat treatment, etc. and the result was a 15k grit hone that would not crack in the desert southwest of the USA. So the users were happy and the company was happy, great. Then the marketing people made a mistake. The new 15k Pro sold by Shapton USA was given the same part number as the original 12k Kuromaku sold by Shapton Japan and the packaging was exactly the same as well. To the casual observer the only difference between the two was that 15k cost more and that led to a conspiracy theory that Shapton was gouging the US market by forcing them to buy a more expensive stone. Reality is that the Shapton Japan 12k and the Shapton USA 15k are two different hones that are very, very similar.

Can all honers let this conspiracy theory die now?

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Originally Posted by criswilson10

Can all honers let this conspiracy theory die now?

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Have you seen 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance'? "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ............ :rofl2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=363ZAmQEA84

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

@utopian I didn't plan on using the hone because then it would be unreturnable... I could understand your distaste of my intentions you implied but it wasn't the case. In all honesty though, I could see your concern if my purchase was though a mom and pops type store... It wasn't the case it's though a multi billion dollar industry called Amazon... But I guess some people have to look out for the little guys...

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:roflmao
Now that is a funny bit of morality.