Need advice on a Honing System

So I got into straight razor shaving about four years ago and started off with my razor, strop, and 4000/8000 stone with lapping plate. Since then I've been getting by just fine with just that same initial equipment. Now I've been getting into cooking and not that I need it particularly, but I'd like to see how easier life is if my knifes are sharp. So since I have my 4000/8000 stone from shaving, I figure I'd sharpen my knife with that and after spending about ten minutes working at it, first with the 4000 then the 8000, just like some online videos suggested, with about a 25 degree angle, my knife feels almost duller. Sharpening a chef knife isn't like a razor. The razor is kept flat on the stone, a chef knife you have to more or less keep the angle for, relatively speaking, a very long blade, with no real way to maintain the angle, it almost an art. So I figure I'm either not good at sharpening (is it something anyone can pick up?) or I need to get a 220/1000 stone to start off with.

My problem is I've also been looking at this Lansky system, which looks full proof and the price is about the same compared with the 220/1000 stone. So do I expand on the system I already have which may come in handy with my razor and hope I get good at it with my chef knife, or do I spend the money on a more exact and easier system? Any recommendations?

I think if you're not confident with free handing your knives on the 220/1000 stones the Lansky system may be a good investment. Personally, I find a 1000 stone to be a pretty good finisher for a kitchen knife, followed by a very fine steel. Top line chefs would probably go to a 4000 or even higher but they've had years of practice maintaining the correct angle.

By the way, I would avoid working chef's knives on the hones you use for razors: you can easily make gouges as well as dishing the stones more severely than you would with razor honing.

The other option that may be a big help for you is a clip on guide for the back of your knife. Once in place it allows you to sharpen your knife be resting the clip on the hone and then hone similar to a straight. The 220/1000 will be needed on very dull knives and those with fine chips. The Lansky type systems are pretty good, but I found that the little hones don't last that long and are fairly pricey for the size. If you want to blow the big bucks you can get a top of the line electric knife grinding machine intended for kitchen knives and use it to set your bevel and then either use a well made draw through or high grit hones. There are many ways to skin this one.

I have the Gatco system for my knives. Similar to the Lansky, but through McMasterCarr.
Find I prefer it since I can select the angle I want from 6 predetermined slots. 11', 15', 19', 22', 25', or 30' degree settings.
So my fillet knives and finer slicers get the 11, carpet cutter gets 30', leatherman 22 etc. Even has a serrated blade stone for carvers and frozen food knives.
I touch up my knives freehand with a steel in the kitchen, but every couple months pull out the Gatco and go to town.
Take it with me to family dinners as the FamDamly all bring their cutlery now. hehe. Maybe the stones are different quality but so far I'm still on my first set still, approximately 100 knives in.
I enjoy doing it as it gives me something to do in lieu of small talk. And who argues with the man holding all the knives??

As Shaun mentioned you can get a clip on ceramic, or uhmw guide that will hold knives at a fixed angle. They are reasonably priced but lack the flexibility of choosing different angles. A great 'go to' guide and very portable. I have one I keep in the tackle box at the cottage.

Good luck with your selections.
Cheers

I use the Spyderco Sharpmaker for all my knives and it works terrifically: http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-A...rco+sharpmaker

Lansky system is slow and problematic with very curved knives.
I think the problem is too fine stone (4k). Try japanese sharpening style and 1k stone.

Maladroit

What do you mean by dishing? And the gauge your talking about is it imperceptible and would my lapping plate take care of that without too much concern? I did notice grey lines on the stone as I sharpened my knife, when the tip or back end rubbed across the stone, I just figured more metal was coming off because its a weak by virtue of being a point, it wiped off easily with my finger.

Also with your first sentence, I'm left with the impression your thinking was, the 220/1000 stone is better but if your not confident you should get the lankey, or was it both are good but since your not confident you should get the lankey.

RezDog

Thanks for the info about the lansky system, I was worried about them not lasting too long, makes me lean more toward the 220/1000 stone with the guide.

MikeB52

I took a look at the Gatco system and I like it for the increased angle options, but since the rods are integrated, I'm not seeing the option you have with the lansky system to lay it on the table and make sure your lines are straight, is there a fix for that? Can you take out the rod and maybe roll them like a pool cue to see if they're straight?

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Originally Posted by Knife

Maladroit

What do you mean by dishing? And the gauge your talking about is it imperceptible and would my lapping plate take care of that without too much concern? I did notice grey lines on the stone as I sharpened my knife, when the tip or back end rubbed across the stone, I just figured more metal was coming off because its a weak by virtue of being a point, it wiped off easily with my finger.

Also with your first sentence, I'm left with the impression your thinking was, the 220/1000 stone is better but if your not confident you should get the lankey, or was it both are good but since your not confident you should get the lankey.

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Dishing is when a hone becomes worn down more in the centre than on the ends - this happens commonly with the softer water stones and tends to be more pronounced with knife sharpening than with razors. A flat hone is generally regarded as a prerequisite for effective razor honing and honers often run the hone over a diamond plate after a honing session to ensure flatness is maintained. Dishing on a hone exclusively used for knife sharpening is not that much of an issue.

I think that honing systems like the Lansky and the Gatco offer a method of sharpening that takes out the variables that make knife sharpening difficult and therefore I would recommend them. I think for most people, these types of honing jigs will give superior results to freehanding.

I have the lansky Diamond system and have had it for years. For kitchen knives it's great. The only downside it for really big knives it's difficult to use.

Big ones are a pain to apply to stones. I have a really long carbon steel knife I use to slice brisket. I use a DMT knife sharpener in one hand and hold the knife in the other. I apply the DMT to the edge instead of vice-versa. Sort of like an axe or scythe. Then, I follow-up with small hones in progression and usually finish up with a broken Swaty. Maintaining the angle is easy for me that way. YMMV

The rods do pull out yes. Allows for different lengths of stroke for different length knives.

Freehand knife honing takes a while to develop skill, practice and use sharpie ink to mark the edge and test your progress. Use your fingers as a guide, thumb on the away stroke and forefinger on the, to stroke, to keep a consistent angle. Eventually you will not need the finger contact.

All, of the knife jigs work, some better than others. As with any honing the quality of the hone makes a vast improvement on the edge. The inexpensive ones have inexpensive- cheap stones that provide equal results.

With the advent of the Edge Pro and Wicked Edge in the last 5 or so years, a vast selection of quality stones has become available. Interestingly an arms race of high grit stones up to 30K, and Nano grit lapping films to hone knives has ensued.

As said, for all but a few knife applications, a 1k edge is more than enough. Guys on knife forums are going to quality high grit stones, Chosera’s, Shapton and Nubatama, cut and mounted for the Edge Pro and Wicked Edge, and nano grit polishing films, not so much for edge producing capability, but for the look, polish and consistent bevels.

A quick search of the knife forums will give you a good insight into the more popular systems and what is available for them. As with most things, the sky is the limit on pricing.

With a little practice and a good 1k, you can develop the skills to keep your knives very sharp. If you are going to use the same stones for razors and knives, mark them clearly and use one side for razors and the other for knives. If you go with a jig system, you can get great result quickly, but better, easier to use systems can be pricy in the $3-500 dollar range with stones.

The systems are really time consuming in the long run...

Just learn to do it free hand... if you can sharpen a razor it only takes a recalibration to do a knife... and if your knives are good ish 15-20 degrees per side will be awesome for most people.

A 800 grit removes steel fast enough for most purposes and a 1500-2000 is good for finishing. Finer is fun too... i like a loaded strop but one that is backed by wood and i keep the bevel that i created with sharpeneing flat on the strop. Look at creating a micro bevel because that makes cutting thicker things much easier... it basically allows you to thin the edge without having too acute an edge... thin edges make for better slicing and chopping. Just remember it is probably not suited for cleaving afterwards so dont do it for all the knives.

The cheapest and quickest solution is the knife clip, it works well and is pretty fool proof.

And an inexpensive diamond plate or plates. For edge restoration a Chefs Knives to Go 140 grit plate for $30 and a 400/1000 grit plate $35 will keep you cutting very well, and you can use to lap your stones…

Do use a dedicate stone for your razors or you will be lapping a lot off your stones for razor use. Knives can easily scar up a stone and need to be lapped often, especially when learning to sharpen knives.

As said the jigs work well, but are a pain to drag out for a quick touch up.

I don't use my razor hones with my kitchen knives except for my 325 DMT diamond plate, I use Arkansas stones after the plate and they seem to work really well, I sometimes use my Dragons Tongue Welsh hone as well