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Hey guys, Just wondering if the Naniwas SS were worth buying in the 10mm thickness instead of the 20mm. This would allow me to buy a few more grits to get going. I realize they wont last as long but if I keep waiting until I can afford all large ones I don't know when I'll do it. I think I would get the 1K in 20mm then the 3,5,8K in 10mm. I think this is doable for less than $200 to my door. I appreciate any feedback.:thinking::thinking:
Thanks, Jeff
If you only hone for yourself I would think the 10mm would last plenty long. If you intend to hone commercially the 20 would probably be the best bet. Razors don't eat much stone if honed properly. Knives or tools might wear on a waterstone but razors not so much. IMHO.
I've been using my Naniwa 1K 10mm for 2 years now and I can see it being used for another 10-20 years. It really got abused in the beginning and so far it may have lost 1mm. My recommendation, get it and get more grits. Who knows, maybe you'll want to try something different, like I'm thinking about the Shapton 2K and the Cretan natural to replace the SS 1K... so you see why it may last for another 20 years ;)
Hi Jeff,
I had issues with my SP 8k not staying flat due to water absorption. Pretty easily fixed but if I had to by the stone again I would get the 20mm as people report less of this problem.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...blization.html
The lower grit hones are used a lot more and so will wear faster, so they are the only ones you would be likely to ever replace, unless you are doing pro honing. For that reason, yes, the 1k would be the best bet for the thicker option.
Now, as far as selection of hones go, Lynn has often said that both progressions of 1,3, and 8k, and 1,5, and 8k are viable options. He is of the opinion that you do not need both.
IF you do want a 4 hone progression from 1k to 8k, my preference is skipping the 3k and replacing it with the 2k hone. That means that I am recommending a 1, 2, 5, 8k progression. Even the grit of the 2k hone is half the size of the 1k hone and so I feel better about using a hone that is better capable of removing the 1k scratches.
Thanks a bunch. I will be honing for only myself at the moment and maybe a few buddies so I think I will get the 10's. I will stay semi-pro if you will. I will continue to finish on my ILR for now. Seems to give me decent results.
Thanks.
Another thought for you to consider.
I love the Naniwa SuperStones, but I do not love the 1k for bevel setting. It loads up with swarf faster than I'd like. For that reason, I only use the SS 1k to "condition" the blade in preparation for running up the rest of the SS series. I doubt if that is needed but it makes me feel better. I never use the SS 1k actually to set the bevel because I have several better options available for me to use. You would be much better off with the Naniwa Chosera (now Pro) 1k as a bevel setter and then do the rest on the SuperStones. If you do not like the price of the Chosera 1k, another great option at nearly half the price is the Arashiyama 1k.
I was going to suggest the Chosera 1k rather than the superstone. IME it is really worth the extra cost. If I was going to buy a set of hones knowing what I know now, having used most of the 'usual suspects', I would go for the Chosera 1k, single grit Norton 4k, single grit Norton 8k, naniwa superstone 12k, and if I was really going to gild the lilly, the gokomyo 20k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Though I tend to want to use as small of jumps between grits as possible, and I confess that I actually never have tried it, I strongly suspect that the cutting capacity of the Gokumyo 20k could handle a jump from the Norton 8k. This would allow skipping the SS12k. Now the SS12k is a great hone and produces a very good edge so it is a perfectly viable final finishing hone, but if someone ultimately plans on getting the 20k then I'm not sure that they need to bother with the SS12k.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I don't know that it is carved in stone, (no pun) but I recall reading an interview with Harellson Stanley, the Shapton USA rep, who said that the glasstones were set up to double the grit size with each step through the series. So 1-2-4-8-16. The 30k shapton was double the 15k pro. At the time the only series that was similar was the norton 4/8 so it seemed to make sense. Not sure whether it is anything more than a guideline, if it is even that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
But along the lines of your post, I've gone from 8k to Escher, or a fine coticule , a lot of times, and it worked well for me.
Agreed, and that is why I prefer going from a 1k to a 2k which is still a jump to a grit that is half as small. The reason that I believe that the Gokumyo 20k can handle the jump is that it is quite a fast cutter so I don't think it would take many more strokes on it to remove 8k scratch marks. This even despite the Nortons using a different grit scale. I don't remember, is the US scaled 8k grit size smaller or larger than the Japanese 8k grit size? I never can find that conversion table when I want it.
I'm a huge fan of the Naniwa SS 2k between bevel setting and the Norton 4k.
I think it is a very rarely used option, but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one using it.
Interestingly, I was just having this conversation, about what I call a `transition stone. The 1k or whatever grit your bevel setting stone may be, is your grinding/shaping stone. The bevel setter flattens the bevels, sets the bevel angle and gets them to meet in a straight edge. To do so efficiently we use a low grit that quickly accomplishes the tasks, but leaves deep stria and a ragged edge.
The next stone is possibly the most important stone in the progression, especially so for novice honers, it makes the transition from shaping to polishing the bevel and straightening the edge.
Typically we go to a 3-4k-ish stone, but most are either too aggressive or not aggressive enough. The goal here is to remove or flatten the 1k stria and straighten the edge by reducing stria height, while keeping the bevels meeting without breaking off the ragged edge, but reduce it by honing.
This is where many novice honers have difficulty, polishing a bevel that has an edge that is very ragged and the transition stone is not aggressive enough, not flattening the 1k stria and leaving a ragged edge, or too aggressive leaving deep stria and a new ragged edge, and the novice move up in polishing grit and the edge is not completely meeting and has even less a chance of meeting at a higher grit.
The trick is finding the right stone or doing enough laps or fewer laps to straighten the edge. For all but the novice, we can read the edge and know when we have reached that point and/or what is needed to move to the polish stone, the 8k where the edge really become straight.
If the transition stone is not aggressive enough, or too aggressive, more time and effort will be required of the 8k. Usually just removing the 1k stria is enough to move to the 8k polish stone and still have a straight meeting edge.
I can see where a 2k stone can be a very good transition stone, aggressive but not too, and possibly better than the standard 4k, especially for the novice.
I have been testing a Nubatama 4k stone, it is very hard, yet agressive and produces a shallow stria pattern. It easily polishes with an 8K.
Another alternative is to bevel set on a higher grit stone, a 2.3 or 4K stone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I think I can kind of confirm your thinking.
My progression goes from Naniwa SS 1K > 3K or 5K > 8K > 12K to Suehiro Gokumyo 20K. The feedback feels to me like through 8K, the stones are working hard, good through the progression. At 12K, feedback seems to disappear and the stone seems to be doing very little work. Once I hit the SG20K, the sensation of feedback from the stone returns. I'll skip the NSS12K on the next straight I hone and see if I can add another data point.
This has been my dilemma in a nutshell - I believe I get the bevel set and the razor easily cutting arm hairs, then moving to the 3k or 4k, and feeling like I've taken a step back - suddenly doesn't cut arm hairs or thumb pad test seems to fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Consistency seems to be my biggest problem.
The Naniwa SS 2k 10mm, was reasonably priced - so I've ordered it, from reading this incredibly informative thread, I can see the reasoning behind the small step at the bevel set stage, or as I refer to it, lose what little hair I have left stage, both on my arms and my head, and raise my BP to critical. Honing and Zen trance, right, one day...:)
Been a very fascinating thread - some great ideas and information in this thread - thanks!
When I first heard about the SuperStones from Lynn, I knew that I wanted a complete set. At that time, I had to buy them from two different sources in order to get almost the full set, but I could not find the 2k anywhere in the US. In order to buy the 2k Japanese Naniwa hone, I had to buy it from a source in Germany!
When using synthetics I too use a four stone progression to get to 8K, and find that the middle work is very important.
I use the Naniwa Professional P310-1K, P330-3K then transition to the Naniwa Goken series, Hayabusa 4K then the Fuji 8K.
These two stones are pretty hard, polish above their grit rating IMO, leaves an edge that is very shave ready for an 8K, perfect set-up for my G-20 or other high end finisher.
I sometimes set bevels on the 3K, just depends on how much work needs to be done, the 3K professional to the 4K Hayabusa is that kind of jump from aggressive cutter to polisher, not much work for the 8K after well done work on the Hayabusa 4K.