What pressure to put on the razor when honing.

Hi Guys,
I'm a keen honing novice and am getting reasonable results now, after watching the videos by Lynn and Glen.
One of the areas that I need help with is the amount of pressure needed for each stage of honing.
I had an idea that may help with this area, if the honemeisters on here could maybe define pressure a little more clearly by putting the stone on kitchen scales and then zeroing them, followed by a blade being put on the stone with the correct pressure and then simply reading the weight shown.
I know this will be a ball park figure, but it would allow us apprentices to get some idea of the correct pressure to apply, if we did the same thing with scales and then we could both see the correct pressure and learn to feel it.
This may sound nuts to you guys but it would help in the learning curve.
What do you think?

Well, I just put a piece of rubber and a hone on a kitchen balance and did a bit of bevel setting and other honing. Pressures are approximate as they jumped around quite a bit.

Peak pressure was about 1900 grams while bevel setting a 5/8 full hollow. It pretty much ranged from 1400 to 1900 grams. That converts to 3.1 pounds to 4.2 pounds.

Mid-grit sharpening pressure was about 650 grams--1.4 pounds.

Finishing was about 100 grams--0.2 pounds, but I suspect when I normally hone the pressure is lighter.

Now, please keep in mind that pressure should be reduced when finishing up on each hone. In other words, even if bevel setting is done at 4 pounds you would still finish up the bevel set around 1 pound of pressure, or less.

It's less so pressure down but more of a torque or twisting of the edge using the spine as a fulcrum. I imagine, like utopian said, is the pressure is less than what the scale said under normal circumstances. The only time I would apply any pressure besides just trying to keep the edge in contact with the hone would be while setting a bevel again using a twisting action. Extra pressure on the spine will only wear it faster. Even with the bevel setter when you've set the bevel make sure you do a few really light strokes to clean up the really deep stria created by using pressure while setting it.

You will naturally exert pressure on the blade just keeping it in contact with the hone. As you hone more and more blades you will get a better feel for appropriate amounts of torque through out the honing progression, but generally less is better.

For a finish I like my coticule and I don't use any pressure. I just glide the blade in X strokes on my wet coticule until the razor kind of sticks/jumps across the stone. That's my stone's signal that the job is done. Then it goes on the strop and I'm ready for a mellow shave. Somewhere on youtube is a three part video of a guy honing this way. Not the quickest method but it works for me.

If my razor just needs a little touch up mid-shave I'll give it a couple of licks on a lathered barber hone and re-strop.

Both my coticule and barber hone are well over 100 years old, flat, very fine grained, and treasured.

Yes, this has been tried before, but pressure, like the number of laps varies depending on the condition of the bevel and the stone in use.

Generally you use more pressure to set the bevel, then less as you polish out the stria. So the most pressure would be at the bevel set and on the transition stone that removes the deep, bevel set stria.

As said doing some light laps at the end of the bevel set will help with stria removal on the transition stone.

But if you have an issue with a part of the blade because of warp or any unevenness, you may need a bit more localized pressure or torqueing.

So, while it is a good idea, like so many things in this hobby, the amount of pressure is not formulaic, and you apply the amount of pressure needed for that razor at that time.

The best thing for improving the learning curve is hands on time with a mentor looking over your shoulder making small corrections in your technique and time on the stones. “How do you get to Carnegie Hall?”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMA

I know this will be a ball park figure, but it would allow us apprentices to get some idea of the correct pressure to apply, if we did the same thing with scales and then we could both see the correct pressure and learn to feel it.
This may sound nuts to you guys but it would help in the learning curve.
What do you think?

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It was not an original idea for this forum, but it was for DMA. Given that he recognized that these only would be ball park figures, I saw no reason for not giving him exactly the information he requested.