Anyone recognize this (thuri? escher?) label?

Hello, recently bought this on the bay I'm pretty sure it is a thuri of some sort. Does anyone recognize the label or have a stone with a complete version?


Attachment 227907
Attachment 227908

Text I can identify:
The middle section says "Wasserabziehstein für Rasier und Federmesser; Garantiert feinste (?) Qualität"

Left section, german: Dieser Stein ist sehr feinkörnig und wird nur mit Wasser gebraucht, eine sehr feine Schneide erzeugen. Man halte den Stein von (...)

Right section; same in english and Made in Germany (I suppose) at the bottom ...

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Thinks that means Waterstone for razors and penknifes, definitely not an Escher but Thuringian yes, should be a very nice finisher.

Well it is definately a thuringian hone. The german designation Wasserabziehstein = waterwhetstone was typically used for thuringian hones.

I'm betting the fact that it is obviously old will mean that it is a better quality hone no matter who the quarry/supplier was. I say that assuming they had more material to pick from back then, and chances are they culled out the rock with inclusions, and just sold first quality hones. That is my guess FWIW.

Well I cannot say if the label is really a very old one. But in general Jimmy, you are absolutely correct.
The thuringian waterwetstones are mined in slate quarries, that consist of in total 442 single layers. From these number 274 layers belong to the so-called clay slate. In this clay slate the whetstone layers were found. In the first phase of mining only the ten best whetstone layers have been mined. Later on, other layes have also been mined, so in the second phase additional 46 layers and in the last phase more than 60 layers have been mined and sold as thuringian waterhones (source: Max Volk: Das Oberdevon am Schwarzburer Sattel----, 1938).
I made a layer table for a presentaton some time ago:

Attachment 227910

The first phase layers have been the original ones, in the second phase mainly yellowish layers have been mined. The third phase layers had been mined because of lack of material from the previous layers, so they may have been of somehow less quality. Unfortunately there is no specific time frame mentioned somewhere, in which the different layers have been mined.

Thanks for the input so far.
I've studied many of the lables of thuri/escher stones around here and normally it says s.th. like 'Genuine/Celebrated/Echter Thüringer etc. before Waterhone/Wasserabziehstein'. The fact that it (apparently) does not on this one kinda keeps me wondering.

The phrasing of the warning not to use the stone with oil seems a bit different from other examples as well.

"Man halte ..." instead of "Öl und Fett müssen ferngehalten werden".

Small details obviously, but very interesting - at least to me
...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatzicho

The first phase layers have been the original ones, in the second phase mainly yellowish layers have been mined. The third phase layers had been mined because of lack of material from the previous layers, so they may have been of somehow less quality. Unfortunately there is no specific time frame mentioned somewhere, in which the different layers have been mined.

---

Peter, do you have any idea which layer in the chart the Eschers from the early period would have come out of ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnsichtskarteausSolingen

Small details obviously, but very interesting - at least to me
...

---

Even more interesting, to me, will be how the stone performs for you once you lay some razors on it. Keep us posted please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hatzicho

The first phase layers have been the original ones,

---

Any idea which colour(s) these were?

And thanks for the detailed info, this is very helpful!

Concerning the label; I think the more old fashioned phrasing and the mentioning of penknives might be indicative of an older stone - that's just speculation on my part of course...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Even more interesting, to me, will be how the stone performs for you once you lay some razors on it. Keep us posted please.

---

First I'll have to check the posts on how to preserve lables, then I need to lap the stone. Can barely wait to try it out myself though, the only Thuri I've tried so far is a very small 'best quality' from MST. I'm still a honing infant btw. But I'll let you know when I get to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnsichtskarteausSolingen

First I'll have to check the posts on how to preserve lables, then I need to lap the stone. Can barely wait to try it out myself though, the only Thuri I've tried so far is a very small 'best quality' from MST. I'm still a honing infant btw. But I'll let you know when I get to it.

---

If a label is really stuck on firmly I spray a document sealer called Krylon Preserve It on the label. Some labels will come off easily when wet. In that case I soak the label off and after drying put it in an envelope for safe keeping.

If you are new to honing save that stone for the finishing aspect of the honing. Thuringans are good finishers, but unlike coticules they are not efficient for heavier bevel work. At least not the ones I've had.

No definitely not good for early stage honing. Very very nice finishers though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Peter, do you have any idea which layer in the chart the Eschers from the early period would have come out of ?

---

Jimmy I have not found any written proof so far. But what we know is - Johan Gottfried Escher founded his company in Sonneberg 1789. He sold slate products and the old (well know at this time) ordovician age oilstones in his first years.
The whetstone quaries that deliver the thuringian waterhones were found 1807, the first rental contract dates from 1808. First miners had been two people from Sonneberg. Since the Escher company at this time was in trading and export business for nearly 20 years already, it is most probably, that the first thuringian waterhones have been sold through the Escher company (at least a main part from them). As I have already pointed out in other posts, mining and trading of whetstones was seperated per government edict during a certain time in the thuringian area. So of course we can expect that the old Escher labelled hones have been mined from layers of the 1. stage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnsichtskarteausSolingen

Any idea which colour(s) these were?

---

You can find the information in the following extract (Max Volk). First phase of mining had been layers no. 64 to 74, so mainly green and blue layers.

Attachment 228030

Regards Peter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

If a label is really stuck on firmly I spray a document sealer called Krylon Preserve It on the label. Some labels will come off easily when wet. In that case I soak the label off and after drying put it in an envelope for safe keeping.

---

The label was coming off in different places already, so I steamed it off completely.

Alright, got around to lapping the stone this weekend.

In the auction the stone was labled as black/grey, and that's what it looked like to begin with. Meanwhile lapping the stone revealed a dark blue/grey specimen...

Attachment 228423

...with a lighter strata/line running through the stone, (the dark spots are remnants of the grime which covered the whole stone...
Attachment 228424

..terminating on the side where the label had previously been.
Attachment 228425


After lapping i put my 'go to' razor on it. Right now my straight razor shaving 'skills' have just developed far enough to not needing to 'clean up' with a DE anymore...
The razor had gone through the following progression:
1000 -> 4000 -> MST EK bankstein (around 8000 i guess) -> MST Thüri (green(ish); beste Qualität).
The blue Thüri felt somewhat harder, a feeling like more abrasion was going on. I then stropped the razor (no pastes). The shave was one of the best I've had with a straight so far, and the edge was definatly taken a notch further. :-)

Mystery solved I think. Just stumbled across this thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...type-hone.html

The label looks pretty much the same to me. So F & Co.