Natural combo id - help needed

So I played the auction site lottery once more, and this is what i got in the mail yesterday. A natural combo - but which? It was described as 'like Escher' but I'm pretty sure it is not a thuri. Almost finished lapping, it sure is pretty...

light side; sunlight; dry

Attachment 235108

dark side; sunlight dry
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dark side; Electric light, wet
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light side, Electric light, wet
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combo, sunlight, wet
Attachment 235112

combo, sunlight almost dry
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light side, sunlight, wet-dry
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dark side, sunlight, wet-dry
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Any help is greatly appreciated.

An dual layered slate stone....

...not sure but i think its not a thuringian Stone....

Probably you could be lucky and it could be a WOA Water of Ayr stone, but iam no expert on those

It doesn't really show in the pics, both sides of the stone have reflective particles evenly distributed across the surface. Dunno if that helps - this was also the reason that I think it is not a thuri. It smells very similarly though..

Some more info:

touched up a razor on the lighter side yesterday; the stone is rather slow and doesn't have lot of feedback, feels harder than my dark-blue thuri. Honing sensation was similar to honing on my LV 5 Wakasa Jnat with just water. The edge came out very nice - keen and crisp, the shave was very nice - close and no irritation. So it is definately in the finishing category, gotta test some more but initial results are promising.

Oh and it produces a whitish-grey slurry.

Checked 'Grinding and honing part 3' and some other threads around here and WoA seems to be a reasonable guess. (I guess)

I am not sure about the WOA.
To me it looks simillar to Jaka hone, slatey, that whiter band on side and gives decent edge.

Could you elaborate on what a Jaka hone is, adrspach? Search function returns nothing and google only comes up with some sites about gemstones...:confused:

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Originally Posted by AnsichtskarteausSolingen

Could you elaborate on what a Jaka hone is, adrspach? Search function returns nothing and google only comes up with some sites about gemstones...:confused:

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Would have asked the same....

Slate hone in past mined in Walachia which is now part of Czech Republic. One of the colleagues from here Radyx still works on thorough research of this hone. There was a big article made for Henk while he was still alive for his book. I am not sure if he managed to publish it before he died. however even if it wasnot published as yet I believe there are plans to continue in his work.
The stone is not mined anymore but there are still some deposits left. There are different quality level samples and some of the spoils from the original mining are used by one of the hone makers Mr Suchacek for his hones but there is a difference between those makers.
Here is one unmarked. Please note the white band on the side.Attachment 235482Attachment 235483

And one more
Attachment 235484

The size is irrelevant as the one shown was made especially for one of the directors of the company who used to own the mine and manufacturing of the hone during comunist times in Czechoslovakia. The usual size is 200x50x25mm with different presentation boxes.

this stone looks like coticule to me

Thanks for the info, maybe it deserves its own thread?

I also checked 'Grinding and honing' and found no mention of a Jaka hone.

Your stone looks pretty similar in many regards, also I got the stone from a seller in Poland, I guess that makes it even more probable that you are right.

It looks like the side 'away from the light band is used for honing on your stone, correct? In mine the lighter side is connected to the light band, and that's the side that gives the better results for honing IME. The stone was well used when I got it and the lighter side was quite dished, so the previous owner must've thought the same.

Does your's produce slurry?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnsichtskarteausSolingen

Thanks for the info, maybe it deserves its own thread?

I also checked 'Grinding and honing' and found no mention of a Jaka hone.

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Henk Bos was working on a special essay about the Czech hones together with some czech hone and razor enthusiasts. Unfortunately he wasn't able to finish his work. But we have really great and knowlegdeable people in the Czech republik who research the vintage czech hones and maybe we are lucky to hear more of these hones from Stepan aka adrspach, Radek, Martin, Jiri and others!!

The article exists as I did English translation of it for Henk. When time will be right it will come up.

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Originally Posted by adrspach

The article exists as I did English translation of it for Henk. When time will be right it will come up.

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Looking forward to seeing this!

Sorry for my bad english. I'm from Russia. This Czech black slate, working in the area of 6000-8000 grit. Obtained in the Czech Republic so far, but the quality has deteriorated stones, there are inclusions of pyrite. a couple of years ago, the quality was higher.

From the side it looks liek a WOA and Tam O shanter to me, (I had a Tam with similar patterns to the lighter tone you have side on view.) I have a couple of Czech hones but they dont look like that.

The WOA and TOS stones did not come from the same quarry like coticule/BBW. This stone is a natural combo and doesn't look like a WOA either, so we can safely assume it's not.
It could be the JaKa stone (I have a strip from one, the surface kind of looks like this one but it has "sparkly" particles on close inspection although uniform), but there are hundreds/thousands of slate/shale deposits in Europe. From these even if the primary purpose of stone extraction is decorative slate, many of them contain material that can be used as a hone, and possibly a really good one. We know the 20 or so most famous, but there are a real lot more out there, either waiting, being extracted, or being already emptied with glorious hones decorating floors and roofs. Like the mine of the JaKa stone.

Sorry Vasilis, not original Jaka, Where did you get your stone?

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Originally Posted by adrspach

Sorry Vasilis, not original Jaka, Where did you get your stone?

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I got it on our meeting at Ardennes, it's a piece 20x2.5x0.5cm, I gave Radek a couple of stones and he gave it to me.

Czech stones also feature high hardness, get to their suspension, using a small piece of the same stone, it's very difficult.

Here is a photo of my copy.

Attachment 246239Attachment 246240Attachment 246241Attachment 246242Attachment 246243Attachment 246244Attachment 246245Attachment 246246

Reason why I have asked is that there are sellers of Jaka who use material of dubious origin.
If it is from Radek then it is the original material. I know that for sure as we were together in the mine picking it. What puzzels me is the glittring in it. I will have to look through my collection of them. However I know that in the same meeting he was also giving out other hones e.g. Wallachian Sandstone hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrspach

Reason why I have asked is that there are sellers of Jaka who use material of dubious origin.
If it is from Radek then it is the original material. I know that for sure as we were together in the mine picking it. What puzzels me is the glittring in it. I will have to look through my collection of them. However I know that in the same meeting he was also giving out other hones e.g. Wallachian Sandstone hone.

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I will take some photos of it. I haven't lapped it so it might be because of it, but I don't think so. As for the Wallachian sandstone, it's an excellent sandstone, at least the samples you gave us. I would love to get a big piece of both of them.
As for your 45x~20cm piece, is it suitable for honing, or a decorative piece?

To be honest with you that hone was originaly made for one of the directors for knife sharpening and then I have inherited it through his daughter.
I have flattened it but had never chance to put razor to it and recently even managed to damage it when I was moving house and the part of the collection which was there.
However if I wante to hone razors on jaka I have some higher quality raw material from the mine to make into usefull hones as well as few orifinal normal size Jakas.

@ Veselchack85: This looks a lot like the one I have, thanks a lot for the info.
regards