(White?) Tam O' Shanter Finisher

although it was not labelled as a tam o' shanter, i was not the only one interested in the stone when it showed up on ebay. so, it wasn't exactly a steal... however, i was extremely pleased when i opened the parcel. the stone is of a very bright colour, evenly covered with very small dark spots and some faint swirls, solid and quite thick. the back side is unevenly shaped. i think the hone must have been glued into a box.

as it seems to be a very fine stone i decided to use it as a finisher. i honed a swiss "E. Eichenberger, Basel" on it. i have never been very happy with this razor. its steel is extremely tough, very resistant to abrasion and difficult to hone (to me...). i started with a 5k naniwa edge, then on the TOS with thick slurry (atoma 1200), diluting to almost zero, stropped and shaved. to my big surprise the resulting edge was much better than expected. although the shave was neither super close nor extremely smooth it was quite acceptable, especially since the razor has always been a beast to hone.

and a few pictures:

Attachment 238144
the new TOS between a TOS/WOA dual hone and a small darker TOS

Attachment 238146
back side of new TOS and dark TOS

Attachment 238147
new TOS wet, upper left corner dual hone TOS wet

Attachment 238149
close up of new TOS (through 10x magnifier)

regards,
hans

Nice stones here are some of mine...

A jewellers Stick which i would call a white TOS:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5484/1...c956a4_c_d.jpg

Plus darker variants with bigger spots:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3807/1...689a08_c_d.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3829/1...087a95_c_d.jpg

More, MORE, MORE, HAD at Work!!!!!:beer1:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FAL

More, MORE, MORE, HAD at Work!!!!!:beer1:

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Haha Fal :-) ok some more...

Tam o Shanter in a Dark Blue:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7330/1...7a6a7c_c_d.jpg

Here the definately white Tos:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7658/1...30c5dd_c_d.jpg

cool, thank you for the pictures, sebastian. looking at them, it seems like my TOS could be called "white" as well.

regards,
hans

Well, Now I want one, not that I need one though... Thanks Doorsch;)

doorsch Why do you think that it's a "White TOS"?
I've seen only 2 white TOS:
there is first if them in Grinding and honing part 3 p.45 (and the same example due to picture of the label there Choosing & Using a Straight Razor - pt3, Hones | The Shaving Room)
and
one on ebay:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/29256...179_82798f79_L
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/38765...17a_98f41cec_L
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/30086...178_5e77fb05_L

And it looks like color means nearly nothing (see G&H 3 p.50) - both of them are grey and there is no significant difference in color between simple TOS and "white".
So there are:
simple TOS (celebrated hone, fine TOS, etc.),
dark TOS (darker and rougher, no specific label found)
blue TOS
white TOS

One friend of mine said that white TOS is different in work: it's softer, faster and finer than all kind of "fine TOS", "for razors" and etc. Unfortunately he has sold his example and I have not even seen it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Botanic

[b]
So there are:
simple TOS (celebrated hone, fine TOS, etc.),
dark TOS (darker and rougher, no specific label found)
white TOS

One friend of mine said that white TOS is different in work: it's softer, faster and finer than all kind of "fine TOS", "for razors" and etc. Unfortunately he has sold his example and I have not even seen it.

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i don't quite agree: officially (=labelled by the manufacturer), there are TOS, Fine TOS and White TOS.

as many TOS of all colours are not labelled, it is ok in my opinion to call such a stone dark, blue, white, green, light, etc. as a description of its appearance.

and anyway - as i don't hone my razors on labels - what counts is the stone's performance: my "white" TOS is finer than my dark TOS and finer than my labelled F.TOS, it is harder than the other two TOS, and also slower than the other two TOS. when you read the label of a W.TOS you'll see that it is described as "slow cutting", so i am not sure if your friend was talking about a labelled W.TOS.

regards,
hans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Botanic

doorsch Why do you think that it's a "White TOS"?
I've seen only 2 white TOS:
there is first if them in Grinding and honing part 3 p.45 (and the same example due to picture of the label there Choosing & Using a Straight Razor - pt3, Hones | The Shaving Room)
and
one on ebay:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/29256...179_82798f79_L
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/38765...17a_98f41cec_L
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/30086...178_5e77fb05_L

And it looks like color means nearly nothing (see G&H 3 p.50) - both of them are grey and there is no significant difference in color between simple TOS and "white".
So there are:
simple TOS (celebrated hone, fine TOS, etc.),
dark TOS (darker and rougher, no specific label found)
blue TOS
white TOS

One friend of mine said that white TOS is different in work: it's softer, faster and finer than all kind of "fine TOS", "for razors" and etc. Unfortunately he has sold his example and I have not even seen it.

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My statement was just based on plain comparison and performance:

- the white one is much finer
- the structure looks much more different and finer, the dots are much smaller

As there is no label left this is just a personal interpretation not based on the quarry owners original "labelling".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brightred

i don't quite agree: officially (=labelled by the manufacturer), there are TOS, Fine TOS and White TOS.

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I can't disagree:)
it was just information from G&H part 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brightred

and anyway - as i don't hone my razors on labels - what counts is the stone's performance

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I don't hone on labels too, but there is a difference between "I've tried labelled white TOS"(fact) and "I've tried some examples and think that the last one is 'white TOS'"(suggestion). It can be just standard deviation that says "i'm a natural hone".
In any case I haven't tried any white TOS, so can't say anything good. It's just my meticulousness, sorry:chapeau
I've simple unlabbelled TOS and celebrated light TOS and secnd was just harder, little bit slower, finer, but I can't say that there was a difference or that one of them was a miracle stone - nothing special.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brightred

when you read the label of a W.TOS you'll see that it is described as "slow cutting"

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fine TOS has the same descr:
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/16165...1f5_638d6246_L
and even "TOS for axes" has the same descr (see G&H 3, p. 49) Only dalmor has "fast cutting" note on label.

Quote:

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My statement was just based on plain comparison and performance

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ok, thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Botanic

I don't hone on labels too, but there is a difference between "I've tried labelled white TOS"(fact) and "I've tried some examples and think that the last one is 'white TOS'"(suggestion). It can be just standard deviation that says "i'm a natural hone".
In any case I haven't tried any white TOS, so can't say anything good. It's just my meticulousness, sorry:chapeau
I've simple unlabbelled TOS and celebrated light TOS and secnd was just harder, little bit slower, finer, but I can't say that there was a difference or that one of them was a miracle stone - nothing special.


fine TOS has the same descr:
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/16165...1f5_638d6246_L
and even "TOS for axes" has the same descr (see G&H 3, p. 49) Only dalmor has "fast cutting" note on label.

ok, thanks.
[/COLOR]

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you are right about speed: TOS, F.TOS and W.TOS are described as "slow cutting". i should have checked all labels. however, my new TOS of undefined colour is slower than my dark TOS and F.TOS.

there seem to be strong opinions about these TOS. i should not have used the W-word. actually, i don't care what label the quarry owner would have glued on the stone. all i think is that this is a nice stone, brighter than many other TOS, and a good finisher.

regards,
hans

To underline the statements of both of you. I also think that the scotch hones are in general nothing too special or too fancy...i either dont liked the results too much.

Still wanne try out a Watr of Ayr stone but what i heard also the results of those are beyond fex. Thuringian Stones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doorsch

To underline the statements of both of you. I also think that the scotch hones are in general nothing too special or too fancy...i either dont liked the results too much.

Still wanne try out a Watr of Ayr stone but what i heard also the results of those are beyond fex. Thuringian Stones.

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i like my dark TOS or the F.TOS as intermediate stones between a synthetic 5k and a fine natural stone. the new TOS of undefined colour is a good finisher, but (when used by me) inferior to most jnats and the only escher i own.

i used the WOA only once or twice as a finisher. didn't like the feeling while honing, nor the resulting edge. but i have very little experience with WOA, others may get excellent results.

regards,
hans

Team,

The white Tam O Shanter is rated between 8-12K depending on your stone. I have seen non whites that venture around 6-8K level in cutting but the white ones can be very fine.

Also there were two different white Tam o Shanters sold. One had the Fine label on it, which was sold for finer tools and razors. This is the one that I am referring to above.

Just to add to the honing experience. TOS is known to succeed where other hones have difficulty with the steel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrspach

Just to add to the honing experience. TOS is known to succeed where other hones have difficulty with the steel.

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I've met only something like that:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

I have several Tam O'Shanter hones and rely on them for honing. I use mine with a slurry and its place is between the Norton 4K and the Norton 8K. They are deceptively effective at removing micronicks and some people shave off the TOS edge.

Mine will never be for sale.

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http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...tml#post208333
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post123076
http://straightrazorpalace.com/aucti...tml#post749463
and somewhere else, but there is no information about what the "other hones that have difficulty with the steel" are. And I can't remember situation\mention when
DT+coti slurry(mid range)
or DT+botan(hi-mid range)
or jnat+nagura(hi-mid -- finish range)
or good LM with slurry(finish\prefinish)
or.. thuringian(finish) has any problem with crisp steel.
Could you clarufy this moment with examples, please?

Ok
Tried to finish with another Pro honemeister Mab razor.
Jaka (Suchacek) finisher no good
Pink translucent finisher no good
Grey Thuri dtto
King 8000 dtto
Norton 8000 dtto

Just for a comparison, a TAM that has the coloration and a finer dot pattern than the "Jeweler's Stick."Attachment 238509
I was going to replace it with a Thuringer but after a few shaves from razors honed upon it I am not going to.
~Richard
PS the hone is slightly off white but much lighter than the photo. It has a very fine dot pattern.