Bringing blunt razor to shaving finish

So I have just purchased a fixed blade straight razor (after having enough of the disposable blade style). It has arrived completely blunt, own a decent set of Ice Bear and King waterstones (no stranger to sharpening knives), I gave it 20 minutes on the 800, establishing a good edge, 10 minutes on the 1200 and then 5-8 minutes on my King 6000 stone, followed by a short time on the strop.

Now the edge is knife sharp, but not shaving sharp. E.g. I can hold a piece of paper up and cut straight through it with no resistance, but it won't cut hair without some real pressure and force.

Im guessing its very thick steel, do I just need to keep persisting, if so, what stone should I be spending most of my time on?

And is there any special technique to turn a razor from "knife sharp" to "razor sharp"?

Cheers.

Paper will dull an edge VERY fast, we never test that way. Test on arm or leg hair first.

Use light pressure when honing especially on full hollows as the edge will flex. Strop at least 50 laps linen 50 laps leather and if you don't have linen 100 laps leather. 6000 grit might be to low for a comfortable edge but more than likely you need more 1200 grit hone laps.

Please post a picture of the blade if possible

Before you go any further sit down and view Lynn Abrams' video on honing. Or one by gssixgun (Glen Mercurio). Razor honing is nowhere anything like sharpening a knife. While you can shave off a 6k progressing to an 8k and then a 12k is standard.

Go to the Library and find the Maintaining a Razor section. Honing videos are there.

Post brand of razor and where it came from if you can't work out how to upload photo. Is it vintage or new?

First off welcome to SRP.

AS said read everything in the SRP library: Straight Razor Place Library - Straight Razor Place Library
And watch some of the mentioned videos.

post some pictures, this may help with assessing the edge.

Also, you could send it out to a pro honer to feel what a true "shave ready" should be. Send Jamie (celticcrusader) a private messege http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...ccrusader.html he can sort you out or Steve Dempster https://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/49-razor-sharpening

Enjoy the journey

Thanks for all the response, will post a picture later and check the guides out, will probably also invest in some much finer stones. I have been sharpening knives with waterstones since I was about 14 so no stranger to the technique, just mastering a new edge so to speak, thanks!

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Originally Posted by crooksey

Thanks for all the response, will post a picture later and check the guides out, will probably also invest in some much finer stones. I have been sharpening knives with waterstones since I was about 14 so no stranger to the technique, just mastering a new edge so to speak, thanks!

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Welcome to the forum. It might be best to approach honing a razor as something completely new and not directly related to sharpening a knife. There have been quite a few people post on here that said they have lots of experience sharpening a knife and can't understand why they can't get a shaving edge on a straight razor.

The bevel set is the key to progressing to a shave ready edge. If the bevel is not set going up the progression of ever fine grit stones will not produce a shave ready edge. You will get a nicely polished bevel that won't shave worth a damn.

Bob

You just need to send it out to get a shaving edge for now, that will give you an idea and a benchmark to shoot for. Forget all that "I know how to sharpen a knife" anyone can do that, cause you don't shave with your knives. I unless all you want to do is have a bad shaving experience.

You can hone a razor , it's not rocket science, but you must have a baseline, and trust me knowing how to shave and strop( which there is a great chance you don't) will make your honing experience better. And it takes a while to learn, so help yourself by sending it out( if it's a decent razor) and meet up with one f the fine guys over in your neighbor, and have a good time. Tc

Yup, start by reading the first 3 post, in the honing forum.

Your stones are fine, just pick up a diamond plate, to lap them flat, knives can tear up a stone.

Then pick up an 8k and possibly a 12k synthetic. Norton and Naniwa are both fine inexpensive stones, as are the Kings.

As said the key to honing razors, is a fully set bevel, some good magnification at least 60X will help you greatly. More than likely, your bevel is not fully set.

Here is a good thread of a new guy honing a razor with some excellent Micrographs of what you are seeing and what to look for. “Second Try at Honing”.

PCM has a series of several good post with great photos, search PCM in the advanced search feature, for the rest of them

Honing a razor is not just about sharp, comfort is what you are after. Sharp is easy, comfort….

There are a few differences between a knife and a razor when you sharpen them.

Most of the work with a razor is done on a stone of about 1K grit. You have this covered with the king. When the razor is done on this stone it should be sharp. If it isn't sharp at this stage it never will be. A well set 1K bevel will cut arm and leg hair, it might not tree top it but at skin level on wet skin it should be removing hair. It is entirely possible to shave from a 1K edge, It just isn't comfortable at all. If you mess up the edge at this stage it will not recover at a later stage.

Everything after that 1K stone is polish. This cleans up the cutting edge to a level where it can cut a hair with no pressure using the hanging hair test. Stones are by far the easiest way to get to that level of polish, and the lowest grit recommended for a comfortable shave is 8,000 grit. You can go much higher, or you can use other methods to attain polish like pastes and lapping films.

Regardless of the level of polish you will need a decent strop. The strop aligns the edge, Without it the razor will not shave very well at all. You can use leather or other materials to strop on. Paper is very good if you are using abrasive pastes and powders. A newspaper naturally has some abrasive from the ink, and if you don't own a stop yet you can make do with a paper on a flat surface. Balsa wood is also very good and easy to get. Likewise Denim, Linen, Canvas are all usable to varying degrees, even more so if glued to a paddle.

The king 1/6 is actually a good stone. It's just not a finishing stone for razors. The 1K side is more than capable of setting a good bevel, and the 6K side will add mid grit polish to the edge. Unfortunately not all stones use the same grit rating and a 6K king is comparable to a 3K Naniwa. This isn't just because the abrasive is larger, it also has a lot to do with how the stones are made and what holds them together. The Naniwa speciality stones are resin bound, it makes them feel like rubber, and they use a softer abrasive. So while the abrasives might be the same particle size the Naniwa makes shallower scratches and leaves a finer edge.

Pastes and powders can add a final polish at any stage provided they have the correct grit rating. They also don't have to be expensive. Crome oxide powder (Crox). Is probably the cheapest and one of the most common used. You have to be careful with what grade you but but typically a pigment grade will be 15-30K grit. And you can have enough for many years for <£5. Stick crayon type lapidary crayons are hit and miss as they often have poor quality control. A Crox crayon from the cheap end might be cut with aluminium oxide and not be suitable for a razor, or it may have no effect. There are branded crayons and pasted that people trust to do what they should. Most reputable resellers stock these. Personally I use pigment grade powder, If I need a paste I mix the powder with light mineral oil.

It is important that any stone you use is free from inclusions, deep marks, and is flat. Lapping the king on 1200 grit wet and dry paper on some glass or a flat surface will give you the best chance of getting that edge you want. Clean it well after lapping making sure there is no loose grit on the hone that includes the sides and in the plastic spacer. A single loose 1200 grit particle will ruin a good edge if it gets in the way.

Links:

8K Naniwa speciality stone
.
Naniwa Specialty Stone, SP-480, grit: 8000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

Crome oxide powder.

Buy Humbrol Av0005 Weathering Powder Chrome Oxide Green 28Ml from our Model Kits range - Tesco

Strop

https://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/s...ing-strop.html

https://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/s...ing-strop.html

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Originally Posted by BobH

Welcome to the forum. It might be best to approach honing a razor as something completely new and not directly related to sharpening a knife. There have been quite a few people post on here that said they have lots of experience sharpening a knife and can't understand why they can't get a shaving edge on a straight razor.

The bevel set is the key to progressing to a shave ready edge. If the bevel is not set going up the progression of ever fine grit stones will not produce a shave ready edge. You will get a nicely polished bevel that won't shave worth a damn.

Bob

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Yep, I was one of those people. I thought the only difference between a sharp knife and a shaving razor was the finishing stone. I Dont think i couldve been more wrong.

A knife just has to be "good enough." A razor has to be perfect, or damn close to. It doesn't take much of an imperfecton to make it tug and pull. Micro chips, itty bitty dings, the bevel just being a few microns from meeting, foiled edges, things you really need a micro scope or jewelers loupe to see, and a light touch to avoid creating by accident.

Similar in theory, but in practice there's a world of difference.

Thanks, I have checked a few videos out that people have recommended and my technique for razors was well off, I aim to give it another go this weekend. I was originally not sitting the razor flat which was probably my issue.

Starting on the 1200 (ice bear), then the 6k King with a slurry stone and I have a 10k stone arriving today to finish it, I already own a decent stop, see below pictures of the razor, note the few small rust/blemish marks, this is a brand new razor so must have been on the shelf for some time.

See here (excuse the dogs).

Attachment 243035Attachment 243036Attachment 243037Attachment 243038

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Originally Posted by crooksey

Thanks, I have checked a few videos out that people have recommended and my technique for razors was well off, I aim to give it another go this weekend. I was originally not sitting the razor flat which was probably my issue.

Starting on the 1200 (ice bear), then the 6k King with a slurry stone and I have a 10k stone arriving today to finish it, I already own a decent stop, see below pictures of the razor, note the few small rust/blemish marks, this is a brand new razor so must have been on the shelf for some time.

See here (excuse the dogs).

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I kind of thought you might be honing with the spine off the hone coming from sharpening knives. Watch your pressure on the blade when honing too. With too much pressure the blade will flex lifting the edge off the hone while you ride the shoulder of the bevel. You might want to consider using a layer of tape on the spine till you get the idea of how light a touch you need to prevent excess wear to the spine. Good luck and be sure to ask if you have any other question or problems.

Bob

Metal polish and 000 steel wool will get the rust off, clean it before you hone. Cleaning after can ruin an edge.

Do tape the spine, learning to hone, you will typically use too much pressure and do too many laps and needlessly grind the spine. Once you master honing razors, then decide if you want to continue to use tape.

Your progression has some large grit jumps, which, for a new razor honer can be challenging. The standard and recommended progression is 1,4,8,12k progression.

Do get some good magnification, there are many threads with recommendation, it does not have to be expensive, 10-15 bucks.

More importantly knowing what you are seeing and what to look for, will speed your journey.

Which 10k did you buy? Not all stones work well with razors, really there are only a few. It is not just about the grit, as said, the binder plays a large part especially in the higher grits.

What brand is the razor? I don’t see any stamps in the photos, the shape looks like a Chinese blade, that has been re-scaled.

What brand is the razor ???

I can't see a makers mark in any of the pics...

There are plenty of "New" razors out the that we call RSO's that will NEVER take an shaving edge, this is why so many of us keep asking the same question

You'll stand a chance on a Chinese razor but if it's Pakistani it's a RSO (Razor Shaped Object) and it will probably be impossible to hone

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

What brand is the razor ???

I can't see a makers mark in any of the pics...

There are plenty of "New" razors out the that we call RSO's that will NEVER take an shaving edge, this is why so many of us keep asking the same question

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