Comparing the Naniwa Pro and the Naniwa Specialy lines

First, as a reminder, the Naniwa Professional line used to be called Chosera. The Naniwa Specialty line used to be called SuperStone.

For people who have used both lines, I would appreciate your feedback on the comparisons between the two. I am new to the Professional hones and so far am not all that thrilled with them. I have found my old SuperStones to be very consistent. After running up the progression with them, I end up with great edges.

So far I am not as happy with the Professionals hones. My impression is that they are too soft and too porous. I have to continually spray them to keep them wet and they seem to be too soft. I have read of them being praised for having a grit that is friable and therefore continually getting more fine while honing. This seems to be of no benefit because they so rapidly auto-slurry and continually are releasing fresh grit. It may be due to my relative inexperience with them, but so far I have ended up with more occasional chipping in the edge at the end of the progression than I get with other progressions.

So, what is your experience with these two lines?

I purchased one Chosera in the 5K. Same experience as yours. Not a bad output but it was a little off-putting to flush that much 'stone' down the drain. It's sitting out there in the box now. Behaved about the same as the 6K King which was, I think, half the price.

I have a 1K chosera I get great bevel setting results from it. It also changes characteristics depending on how I lap it.

Course lap (325) it'll cut like a demon and auto slurry just as much.

Fine lap (1K) it'll take on a lot of polish and slurry very little at the expense of cutting power and it'll load a little.

I tend to leave it with a fine lapped finish It still cuts faster than the 1K king like this, but doesn't cover everything green! When fine lapped the naniwa stock rubbing block (brown ceramic) tends to abrade onto the 1K leaving a brown slurry, With a coarse finish the rubbing stone leaves a green slurry. So there is definitely some differences in the finish of the rock and how it affects auto slurry. I also tend to clear mine with a smooth glass block further adding to the smoothing effect.

Might be a case of your diamond lap is a little on the new side. Try a finer lap. When lapped mine will show light reflections and feels silky to the touch rather than velvety. YMMV.

The plate that I use for refreshing synthetic hone surfaces is an 8 year old Shapton DGLP, so I don't think that is an issue. Also, I should have clarified something. That is, I have had the Chosera 400, 600, 800, and 1k for several years and I have been very happy with them. I think their performance and behavior is quite different from the 2k through 10k. The lower grit hones are not very porous, not thirsty after brief soaking, not particularly soft, and not prone to auto-slurrying.

I recently bought the pro 1k, and my impression mirrors yours. I had to spray it WAY too often and a lot of the stone went down the drain:(

I will try to clarify again. That is not my experience with the Chosera 1k. The problems I described were for the 2k through 10k Professional hones. I have not experienced those issue with my older 400 through 1k Chosera hones.

Ron...you have to show these guys a pic of your Rock collection ....

i am happy with a 400 professional and a 1k professional. i had two 5k professionals. they did not auto slurry and were quite hard, but also thirsty. although i used as little water as possible, both had cracks after a few months. i use a 5k naniwa super stone now. works fine.

picture of my cracked 5k pro in another recent thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ml#post1658630

regards,
hans

I bought the Choseras some time ago. before they changed the name to 'professional.' Perhaps they changed the composition of the stones as well ? I've had no complaints with mine other that some minor surface cracks appearing on the 5k at the edges.

I begin honing by setting my first chosera in a container of water for 5 minutes of so. When I pull it out to begin I set the next one in the sequence in the water. So they all get 5 minutes soak before I used them. I have not found them to be 'thirsty' nor rough. It has been so long since I sold my superstones that I cannot remember them well enough to comment beyond saying that I probably should have held on to them.

Chosera 1-5-10
Superstone 1-3-5-8-10-12

Been using the Chosera on the majority of razors for a few years now, I actually use slurry when honing, I abuse the hones they're are simply tools to me.. The Crazing (Not cracks) has never been an issue for me, I do a few figure 8's with a well worn DMT 325 before each razor and move on..

IMHO The Chosera 10k edge is simply too harsh to use without stupid amounts of Strop work after honing, so I ALWAYS use a Natural finisher afterward..

The the differences that I see between the two

The Choseras are a faster cutter but still very shallow stria, which as I understand it is because they have more Grit per Sq/In

The SS are probably the closest synthetic hones I have used that are truly targeted at SR's, I doubt they planned that, but the feel and feedback make SR honing pretty straight forward on them..

I have said often that the Naniwa SS are hard to beat at any price..

I would NOT recommend the Choseras to anyone that is not honing professionally, and that have an abundance of Natural Finishers and the experience to use them after..
They are fast, accurate, and damn expensive :)

I feel the Naniwa SS progression is the best money spent for most SR honers


JHMO and a bit of experience teaching people to hone

I have a 3k Chosera that I like very much. It performs much like the 3k SS but stays flatter and feels a bit harder IMO. If I dropped it or something, I would repurchase the Pro, rather than go to the 3k SP.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I bought the Choseras some time ago. before they changed the name to 'professional.' Perhaps they changed the composition of the stones as well ?

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As far as I know, Naniwa has continued to state that the formulations have not changed. Only the names have been changed.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

I have a 3k Chosera that I like very much. It performs much like the 3k SS but stays flatter and feels a bit harder IMO. If I dropped it or something, I would repurchase the Pro, rather than go to the 3k SP.

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I love my Chosera 3k as well, I also have the 'original' snow white 8k which is the same binder as the Chosera, both are great stones and I would never trade them off.

Several vendors claim the Professional line as well as the Chosera line uses "magnesia" or "magnesium" as the binder. They also claim the SS line uses "resin" bonding. The Chosera line is still available but only for the Japanese market and only in the thinner size on fixed bases.

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Originally Posted by Wirm

Several vendors claim the Professional line as well as the Chosera line uses "magnesia" or "magnesium" as the binder. They also claim the SS line uses "resin" bonding. The Chosera line is still available but only for the Japanese market and only in the thinner size on fixed bases.

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That is what I was given to understand when I bought mine. TBH the reason I sold my Shapton Pros, my Naniwa SuperStones was because the polymer binder, or whatever, caused them to always need lapping every time I took them out to hone.

Even if I put them away absolutely flat. Not so the Norton 4 & 8 single grit hones. They only need lapping when they are dishing. Unfortunately the Choseras (mine) are no better in that regard than the pros or the supers. Live and learn ........... :boohoo:

HERE is a thread about the lapping issue with SuperStones.

The upshot lesson from all of that thread was that the hones needed to be treated the same way each time. I have found that I prefer to soak them for a few minutes, hone on them, and then gently lap them before putting them away. The rationale for this was to lap/refresh the hones after they have been wet for a longer period of time. Another option would be to lap/refresh it after soaking but before honing. The advantage of this way would be that you have fresh slurry available on the hone. The reason that I don't do this method is that I have found a better uniformity in the hones' swelling when they have been wet a little longer, as they are after finishing the honing.

After a few year's on Shapton glass I switched to Chosera 1,10k and the 5k pro.
I really like these stones, they are thirsty, soft and excellent with a slurry.
I know you can use the 10k dry?
Never used the superstone .

Recently due to my stones cracking I went back to my nagura progression, holy cow, buttery smooth edges.
I can't believe I spent so long on synthetics. :)

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Originally Posted by Utopian

As far as I know, Naniwa has continued to state that the formulations have not changed. Only the names have been changed.

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Naniwa Professional Stone, P310, grit: 1000 | knivesandtools.co.uk

According to where I get my Naniwas from they have renewed the binder.
Ive got both the Superstone and Specialty in 10k and cant tell much difference, I find the Specialty a bit thirstier, but results practically the same, then again I only hone for myself so dont spend the amount of time on the hones as some of you fine gentlemen.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I will try to clarify again. That is not my experience with the Chosera 1k. The problems I described were for the 2k through 10k Professional hones. I have not experienced those issue with my older 400 through 1k Chosera hones.

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After reading this I did notice a small amount of auto-slurrying with my Chosera 3k. I did not find auto-slurrying with my 'new to me' Chosera 5k. What I did notice with the 5k is that it seemed to squeegee dry when honing on it. In other words it did not seem thirsty in the normal sense, but the water would get wiped off of the center of the stone with each pass of the razor. On the 3k the auto-slurry does not bother me as it seems quite fine and at this low stage in my progression it is actually probably desirable. That is probably why I had not even noticed it in the past.

I have used both pro and ss. To be honest I like them both. I now use the pro and they feel harder cut faster and don't swarf up like the ss do.