Hone ID - Water. Stone., Natural Gemany

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08-26-2016, 09:40 PM
atercz

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Hone ID - Water. Stone., Natural Gemany
Can anyone identify this hone please? I have two specimen. Both purchased in Japan. I tested only smaller stone. Stones description:
- It's very consistent finisher producing mirror surface (approx. 8 to 12k). Sharpening with slurry (released by Atoma #400) did not affect much resulting surface.
- Stone is not fast nor with slurry. Sharpening is slow like CF.
- Stone is harder. Harder than coti, but not super hard as CF.
- Slurry is white milk, same as coti slurry. Sharpening on slurry is slow and results is much better than on coti slurry.
- Stone is not slate. It has not layers and chipping is very specific similar to obsidian. Feel during sharpening is like on coti but this is not coticule. Also it is not novaculite.
- Color is very light brown, darker stains on bigger stone are dirt, they disappear after lapping and then dry surface is almost monolithic. Wet surface contains darker stains. I saw similar stains on synt. King 6k S-3. Maybe this stone is reconsolidated natural stone.
- Bigger stone dimensions: 201x25x76 mm, weight 975g, Smaller stone: 183x77x19,5 mm, weight 712g
Photos of large stone:
Attachment 244136Attachment 244132Attachment 244133Attachment 244134Attachment 244137Attachment 244135

Smaller stone:
Attachment 244140Attachment 244141Attachment 244138Attachment 244139Attachment 244142
08-27-2016, 06:14 AM
RusenBG

Looks like synthetyc coticule to me
08-27-2016, 07:27 AM
sidmind

Get some acid, I personally use some acid from a gold testing kit, but I read vinegar works just as well.
a dop on it and see if it foams up. foam usually = synthetic.

I have two synthetic coticules that are amazing fine grit I need to get rid of one, I even have one that is suppose to be synthetic thurigan and synthetic coti on the same stone.
08-27-2016, 12:28 PM
Vasilis

I think this stone is described on this thread, http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...er-quarry.html
The stamp on the other hand, it's clearly Japanese, stamped there. From their size, it's possible they were cut in Japan too. What are the odds for that stone being sold in Japan?
Edited because of misunderstanding;
It's a rare stone that is no longer extracted, and the above thread has a lot of photos and an interesting description. They belong in the "Thuringian" category, are older, and have been used as hones for many centuries. Beautiful, well preserved samples, and you managed to find them in Japan, good job!
08-27-2016, 12:42 PM
JimmyHAD

I'm not going to bother spending 20-30 minutes of my Saturday reporting posts, deleting them, and sending PMs.

So ........ if you have a stone you want to sell sidmind, by all means list it in the classifieds.

Vasilis, if you are willing to buy those stones you needn't tell the world. Just PM the original poster and make an offer.

Buying and selling solicitations are not allowed within forum threads. That is what the classifieds and the PM system are for.

Thanks for your understanding, and have a great day !
08-27-2016, 02:46 PM
Vasilis

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'm not going to bother spending 20-30 minutes of my Saturday reporting posts, deleting them, and sending PMs.

So ........ if you have a stone you want to sell sidmind, by all means list it in the classifieds.

Vasilis, if you are willing to buy those stones you needn't tell the world. Just PM the original poster and make an offer.

Buying and selling solicitations are not allowed within forum threads. That is what the classifieds and the PM system are for.

Thanks for your understanding, and have a great day !

I've been here for a long time and know the rules, I was sure everybody understood that I was kidding, it's a common thing. I've also done it for la lune stones as well as for filarmonica razors, saying that they are awful and asking to get them. The truth about the stone is, it's really rare. You can see that from the link above. Again, I thought there wouldn't be any misunderstandings.
08-27-2016, 03:23 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasilis

I've been here for a long time and know the rules, I was sure everybody understood that I was kidding, it's a common thing. I've also done it for la lune stones as well as for filarmonica razors, saying that they are awful and asking to get them. The truth about the stone is, it's really rare. You can see that from the link above. Again, I thought there wouldn't be any misunderstandings.

Kidding is not against the rules, but when we do it with the keyboard, on the Internet, sometimes it is not easy to recognize. That is why, when I kid, I say, "Just kidding", or I include an emoticon, such as ............ :rolleyes:

That way it should be clear that I'm only joking around, and my intentions are not misunderstood. :chapeau
08-28-2016, 08:24 PM
atercz

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidmind

Get some acid, I personally use some acid from a gold testing kit, but I read vinegar works just as well.
a dop on it and see if it foams up. foam usually = synthetic.

Very good trick with acid. Thank you! I tried 8% acetic acid (vinegar). Foam was not created. Only some bubbles has been created in a drop of vinegar. Bubbles disappeared in about 5 minutes. Maybe vinegar is not strong enough. I have 40% sulfuric acid, 31% sulfuric acid, 85% phosphoric acid and anhydrous citric acid. Which might be the best for test please?
08-28-2016, 08:27 PM
atercz

Vasilis, thank you for great link!

There are little chance get another stone. Stone is from auction of old tools. If I will see another i will buy.
08-28-2016, 08:49 PM
Vasilis

Quote:

Originally Posted by atercz

Very good trick with acid. Thank you! I tried 8% acetic acid (vinegar). Foam was not created. Only some bubbles has been created in a drop of vinegar. Bubbles disappeared in about 5 minutes. Maybe vinegar is not strong enough. I have 40% sulfuric acid, 31% sulfuric acid, 85% phosphoric acid and anhydrous citric acid. Which might be the best for test please?

Almost all natural stones contain some carbonate minerals. These foam. As for synthetics it works only for some with magnesia binder or something similar. Norton won't foam. Naniwa superstones won't foam. Chocera will. King stones with resin binder won't either. Sigma won't. Barber stones won't. Chinese cheap ones won't.
As for naturals, the overwhelming majority of them are basic. They react with acid and get damaged, since their minerals are salts with SiO2 being the acid part, although really weak. That is replaced with the stronger one.
I don't know who started the rumor that "man made stones react with acid" but it's not true. And again, almost all natural stones do absorb liquids to a degree, so, next time you hone, there will be some acid in the solution as well, and steel rusts really fast in presence of acid. A stone that took some hundreds of millions of years to be formed getting damaged in an instant just to see if it bubbles, it doesn't sound right.
As for this stone, you can clearly see from the sides of the stone that it's a natural. See that letters 天然 ? It's a natural stone without question.
Edit; That's what is written on the right:
天然砥石 (tennen toishi, natural sharpening stone) ドイツ Germany. And something else but it should be less important to search the kanji by radicals, the above I know.
Google 天然砥石 and see the beauties, it became synonymous with Kyoto natural finishers.

Please, don't use acids on stones.
08-30-2016, 01:02 AM
atercz

Vasilis, thank you for nice explanation. I will not use another acid. I will try to translate whole kanji stamps on stone and search more info.
09-03-2016, 06:19 PM
dta116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Almost all natural stones contain some carbonate minerals. These foam. As for synthetics it works only for some with magnesia binder or something similar. Norton won't foam. Naniwa superstones won't foam. Chocera will. King stones with resin binder won't either. Sigma won't. Barber stones won't. Chinese cheap ones won't.
As for naturals, the overwhelming majority of them are basic. They react with acid and get damaged, since their minerals are salts with SiO2 being the acid part, although really weak. That is replaced with the stronger one.
I don't know who started the rumor that "man made stones react with acid" but it's not true. And again, almost all natural stones do absorb liquids to a degree, so, next time you hone, there will be some acid in the solution as well, and steel rusts really fast in presence of acid. A stone that took some hundreds of millions of years to be formed getting damaged in an instant just to see if it bubbles, it doesn't sound right.
As for this stone, you can clearly see from the sides of the stone that it's a natural. See that letters 天然 ? It's a natural stone without question.
Edit; That's what is written on the right:
天然砥石 (tennen toishi, natural sharpening stone) ドイツ Germany. And something else but it should be less important to search the kanji by radicals, the above I know.
Google 天然砥石 and see the beauties, it became synonymous with Kyoto natural finishers.

Please, don't use acids on stones.

You might mention that the black Arkansas is used for gold testing where acid is purposely dropped on gold pieces atop the ark for proofing. No harm to the stone.
The quarries will sometimes immerse the stones in acid to insure no calcium is present.