New to the Forum and New to Honing!

Welcome to SRP Swirv. Sounds like you've done your homework. Knowing what I know now, if I had it to do over again after 9 years, and most of the hones, I'd get a Chosera 1k for bevel setting, a Norton 4/8 for sharpening/finishing, a Naniwa 12k SS, and a diamond plate for flattening.

The Norton 1k is alright, but not nearly as fast/good as a Chosera 1k. The Norton flattening stone is alright too, but it will eventually need to be flattened as well, and is generally not truly flat to begin with.

Diamond plates are cost effective if you are going to be using your hones a lot. Otherwise wet/dry sandpaper is probably a good option. Of the diamond plates that I'm aware of, the DMT D8C (325) is decent and cheaper than the Atoma 400, which is what I'd get now if I didn't already have the DMT. There are other less expensive alternative plates but I have no experience with them myself.

SuperStones are great stones, and though I sold mine and bought the Choseras, there again, if I had it to do over I'd have kept the SS and would forego the Choseras. TBH, the Norton single grit 4, and 8K are my favorite synthetic stones. 1" thick and they don't 'move' while resting, so the only time they need to be lapped is from infrequent dishing due to use. The SS & Chosera (Specialty stones) are affected by humidity, temperature, and they need lapping every session ....... in my experience.

So that is my 2 bits ........... :gl:

Jimmies recommendation is a solid one and if indeed you are going to restore and hone razors a lot, definitely get a Chosera 1K. I will also add a favorite mid range combo stone of mine is the Naniwa SS 3/8 k combo stone. Norton 4/8 is fine and has a lot of history with this forums members but I just think the Naniwa is better. I say this mostly because I hate the 4k Norton stone it feels terrible to hone on and the 3k side of the Naniwa is just a pleasure to use and is really of comparable grit if not finer due to their grit rating system. Both fast cutters the Naniwa is essentially splash and go and no soaking required. Diamond plates are the way to go for ease of use but if your getting by with granite and sandpaper you can save a buck or 3 for now. You mentioned the use of lapping papers for the finishing/polishing phase and certainly that is also doable. I have used lapping papers with good success but went to dedicated finishing hones for ease of use, just because I am a little lazy when it comes to cutting and mounting the things on a flat rock or glass. Certainly there will be many solutions to this and in the end you just need to learn your system and be comfortable with it.

If you bevel set on the 1k or your Washita, soft Ark, you can finish on the 3 and 1um film. So, really you already have all you need to hone a razor to a very high level.

Most important is the bevel set, and you can do that with the soft Ark. Learning to achieve a complete bevel set is the most difficult part of honing for most. If the bevel is not fully set, the rest does not matter.

Of your future stone purchase choices, it does not matter, Norton and Naniwa, are both equally good and perform the same, within the same grit range.

To answer your Blue questions, No benefit to a combo stone, No, the SS stones are the same stones, different thickness, and No, just don’t excessively soak your stones and dry normally, not in the sun. All synthetic stones “swell” to some extent, but is not an issue.

Do keep in mind, what you are doing, is not garden variety honing or maintenance. This is Repair/Restoration work that is very different from honing and can make the honing process more difficult and problematic for the new razor honer.

For restoration/ repair work, quality lower grit synthetic stones will produce more consistent results. You can and folks have used soft arks for tool, knife and razor repairs, for hundreds of years. But the more aggressive you get in removing metal, the more difficult refining the edge can become. You can easily cause more problems than you solve.

No matter which stones you buy or already have, you will have to learn your stones. And for that, some hands on time, with a local mentor will cut your learning curve dramatically.

Reading and understanding the first 3 threads in the honing forum, and the suggested links, will go a long way to understanding the honing process.

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks so much guys! I greatly appreciate all the advice and insight that you've all provided!

I'm looking into the DMT D8C (325 grit) for flattening. Could I just use this for flattening and for setting the bevel on some of the razors that have a few more nicks?

Is a 1k Cholera/SS sufficient enough to reset the bevel on Razor that has a "butter knife" edge? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 220 Norton would set the bevel quicker, however, it would require more progression stones/grits in order to achieve that HHT4?

I guess I'm wondering if I started with the 220, then I should progress something like this: 220 -> 1k -> 4/5k -> 8k -> 1 micron paper -> .5 micron paper.

I'd imagine it would take significantly longer to set the bevel on a nicked edge using the 1k to start with. However I see the value in that as I would need 1 less stone (220). Progression would be something like: 1k -> 5k -> 8K -> 1 micron paper -> .5 micron paper

As for using the a DMT as a flattening stone, I was doing some research and saw some opinions stating to never using a lapping plate to flatten a hone that has a Lower grit than the Lapping plate. i.e.: Not a good idea -> 325 DMT D8C to flatten a 220 Norton. That being said, if I were to use/start with the 220 to set the bevels, I'm thinking the DMT D8X would be a smarter option?

Thanks again guys, I'm like a sponge right now and am loving all the new information I'm learning!

I use a DMT 325 for lapping my Naniwa hones. By using the DMT 325 for bevel setting you can create more work in the end by having to remove the deep striations they leave in the blade but it can be used. I really don't like to go below a 1K Nani for bevel setting a chippy old blade. A good condition blade probably needs no lower than a 3K-4K hone to reset the bevel. I don't have any hones below 1K so I can't answer your last question.

Bob

One of the things we seem to lack on with our descriptions, and I am continuing to try and change is the difference between all the "Bevels"

There is a tendency still to call everything a "Bevel Set" when these three conditions are rather different

Chips, Dings, Re contouring, Fixing Geometry = "Edge Restore" and is done at lower grits then 1k

A bevel where the edges do not meet, and the edge was not shaving nor is close to shaving sharp, and tiny chips = "Bevel set" that is done at around 1k

Straightening out the bevels on a razor that was shaving, and just needs to be brought back to even = "Bevel Refresh" is usually done between 2k and 5k

These are the terms I use personally to try and not confuse people when I am teaching them to hone :) I hope it helps


(Please understand that using slurry also falls under the same descriptors it just doesn't use the Grit ranges)



ps:

This means diddly "in order to achieve that HHT4"

This means everything "in order to achieve that CCS" (Close Comfortable Shave) :tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One of the things we seem to lack on with our descriptions, and I am continuing to try and change is the difference between all the "Bevels"

There is a tendency still to call everything a "Bevel Set" when these three conditions are rather different

Chips, Dings, Re contouring, Fixing Geometry = "Edge Restore" and is done at lower grits then 1k

A bevel where the edges do not meet, and the edge was not shaving nor is close to shaving sharp, and tiny chips = "Bevel set" that is done at around 1k

Straightening out the bevels on a razor that was shaving, and just needs to be brought back to even = "Bevel Refresh" is usually done between 2k and 5k

These are the terms I use personally to try and not confuse people when I am teaching them to hone :) I hope it helps


(Please understand that using slurry also falls under the same descriptors it just doesn't use the Grit ranges)


ps:

This means diddly "in order to achieve that HHT4"

This means even thing "in order to achieve that CCS" (Close Comfortable Shave)

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@Gssixgun thanks for clarifying! This was very helpful as a lot of the antique/vintage razors that I have come across will require stones with grit lower than 1k in order to "Edge Restore"!

[QUITE=gssixgun;] (Please understand that using slurry also falls under the same descriptors it just doesn't use the Grit ranges) [/QUOTE]

What do you mean by this? I understand that using slurry on for example a 5k stone would essentially bring the grit "rating" of that stone below a 5k and that as you are honing the razor, you want to gradually dilute the slurry with a few drops of water until rinsing the slurry completely off and using just water. Correct?





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Welcome Swirv,

A 325 DMT will work if it is 'mellowed', that is worn to the point that all the sharp edged particles are rounded.

A 1k Chosera will work on razors with rounded bevels, but it will take a while. I'm thinking about those truly rounded bevels on European razors that have seen nothing but pasted strops for decades. For these, I prefer a 600 Chosera, but if you're just doing a few round-edge razors once in a while the 1k Chosera will work fine.

Do not use any 220, it's just too coarse for razors. My coarsest hone is a Shapton Pro 320, and it only gets used for new Gold Dollars, smoothing spines, and chips.

My current lineup coarsest to finest is Shapton Pro 320, Naniwa Chosera 600, Shapton Pro 2k and 5k, Shapton Glass HC 8k, then a jnat finisher with koma nagura and tomo nagura. Naguras are slurry stones. Anything coarser than the 2k Shapton is correcting something, and a 'major' overhaul of one of my users usually begins at 5k or 8k.

Cheers, Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swirv

What do you mean by this? I understand that using slurry on for example a 5k stone would essentially bring the grit "rating" of that stone below a 5k and that as you are honing the razor, you want to gradually dilute the slurry with a few drops of water until rinsing the slurry completely off and using just water. Correct?

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Yes,,

There are several systems that use Slurry, the Coticule and Japanese Naturals come to mind first..

These are working the same way as the lower grit hones work, but by using slurrys, you are doing a 1k level or a 4k level just using a different way of doing it..

The DMT 325 also can do double duty in sharpening kitchen knives. I do mine. For pocket knives I use a series of Arks, because I like a finer edge than the diamond plate.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a56f2a1996.jpg

So I finally made a decision and got my stones!!! I also received the Thorlabs 3, 1, and .3 micron papers!

Following items:
-Naniwa stones: 220/1k/5k
-DMT D8C
-2 Stone holders
-Nabura Slurry stone (did I even need this!?)
-3, 1, .3 Micron Lapping Papers (8k, 12k, 30k equivalent Grit)

So I'm looking to get started on honing some of the antiqued Razors I have.

Is there anything I should/need to do before jumping right into honing? Pretreatment or prep at all?




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Don't soak the Naniwa hones. There a splash and go hone. They should never sit in water for longer than a few mins, and should be stored as dry as possible. Towel dry them every session and store with some airflow so they dry fully.

Knock down the Diamond plate. Take an old screwdriver and use the shank to scrub the plate for a few mins to remove any high diamonds.

Then lap all of the stones. Figures of eight and just do a few grid laps with pencil lines to make sure there are no high or low spots.

Outside of that it's trial and improvement. There are loads of videos online about spine taping, And stroke types. Most people use an X stroke or one of its variants.

Don't expect to get good results in the first few weeks. There is a lot to learn, and missing a spot, or rolling an edge is expected.

Wear down the DMT with a piece of steel, then use the 1and 5k, throw he 220 away and then meet up with someone to really help your learning curve. Tc

My only point is that Naniwa Superstones benefit, IMHO from a couple of minutes in water, say 5 minutes max. My Naniwa's are all 20mm superstones on bases, and they all perform well with a brief 'dunking'. Enjoy your journey

I prefer to use the Chosera 1k for the usual and chips, restored blades with no bevel..
Use some slurry.. It dosnt take to long ..

Very rarely do I go lower..
But that's just me and I'm in no rush :)

Thanks everyone for all the great and much appreciated advice! I tried my hand at honing two razors today. I feel they turned out pretty well. I haven't stripped yet but plan on that tomorrow.

Unfortunately neither of the two razors are passing the drop hair test. Not sure if a good stropping will fix that but I did look at the edges under a 10x loupe and they look to be free of all nicks and the bevel is fairly polished after hitting it with the .3 micron paper.


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If you are committed with a real interest, you will end up with edges that are dynamite :)
Patients is definitely a virtue..

It will take you a while to learn your hones! In most cases "Less pressure is more"!! Make sure your new stones are flat! I have tried the film but have much better luck with hones. With the stones you have I would get a Coti. To finish on. I love mine.
I haven't seen any of the "big guns" using film on a daily bases, there must be a reason! Let me tell you I have tried about every film, cheap hone cheap strop and for the most part they just don't work. I don't mean cheap in price always but cheap in quality. I got my Coti. for three bucks at a flea market. I got my Koken shell strop at a antique shop for fifteen bucks. The secret is knowing what you are looking at. Speaking of strops, what are you using? It can make a big difference with your edge.
Just remember that it takes a while. One day it will just happen & your razors will turn out sharp!

Slawman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slawman

It will take you a while to learn your hones! In most cases "Less pressure is more"!! Make sure your new stones are flat! I have tried the film but have much better luck with hones. With the stones you have I would get a Coti. To finish on. I love mine.
I haven't seen any of the "big guns" using film on a daily bases, there must be a reason! Let me tell you I have tried about every film, cheap hone cheap strop and for the most part they just don't work. I don't mean cheap in price always but cheap in quality. I got my Coti. for three bucks at a flea market. I got my Koken shell strop at a antique shop for fifteen bucks. The secret is knowing what you are looking at. Speaking of strops, what are you using? It can make a big difference with your edge.
Just remember that it takes a while. One day it will just happen & your razors will turn out sharp!

Slawman

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Thanks for the insight everyone!

I'll do some research on the Coti. The strop I got is from SRD, the Black Latigo with the Poly webbing.

Using the film is somewhat a PITA. I'll fool around with it a bit longer but I can see myself just purchasing a few more stones instead, simply for ease of use.


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