Just wondering what you all think. Birthday coming up & will get gift cards & wanting to get a finish hone in the $100.00 to $150.00 range.
Slawman
Just wondering what you all think. Birthday coming up & will get gift cards & wanting to get a finish hone in the $100.00 to $150.00 range.
Slawman
I love the 16K, heck...I have been a Shapton GS guy for a long time as they are my preferred stone. Tell me, what finishers do you have right now over 8K?
Do you like what I call a semi-crisp to a crisp blade? Shaving directly off a GS16k is just that, a very sharp feeling blade (not scratchy in any way)...and it will be as long as you have done your part on the lower "grit" stones. If you prefer a smoother feeling blade, I would have to recommend a quality thuringian or a Naniwa 12K.
A Shapton GS16k is quite a fast stone, with the white ceramic type material used you will really see the material being removed as you make passes on the stone. What I really like about the stones, if you have done your part on bevel set up to the time for a finisher, is the feedback the stone gives you. You will feel when it's polished the blade via what some of us call "stiction". 2-3 super light strokes after you feel it and your razor is ready for leather.
One last good quality about the GS16k is that it is a fabulous touch up stone, you will no longer use your barber stones once you get the hang of it.
At the moment I am finishing on my Coti under running water. I have a 10K Wei Wei Chinese that I don't like very well. It is well under 10K to me. I also have a John Primble Barber hone that I touch up on & have finished on with good results. The John Primble was one of the highest rank barber hones on the shoot out at the "other" place. I just want to take it up a notch & I may start a little honing business.
Dave H.
I finish on a 16k.
As Scott says, they are aggressive stones. Not many laps are needed and you should keep the pressure to an absolute minimum.
I am very happy with the final edge.
I agree 100% with Scott Goodman.
Since I've been using the Shapton glass stone progression I hardly touch anything else.
I use a 1k Naniwa Chosera for the bevel set then the 4k, 8k, and 16k Sharpton glass stones.
They leave nothing short of a fantastic mirror polished edge, and do it quite fast.
The 16k is pretty much all that I use for touch ups now.
My Naniwa progression, my natural bbw and coti progression and even my Escher are pretty lonely campers right now.
Pete <:-}
I don't know what lower grit hone you're coming from, but if it is 10-12k, I'd save up, throw in another $50 or so and get the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k.
Cheers, Steve
Very few people would have both the 15K Pro and the 16K GS. Most opt for the GS as that seems to be a rock solid system and the glass makes it very unlikely that you will break a hone when it gets thinner, something the Pro stones cannot say. As for the difference in grit, I don't think it would matter in the slightest. Go with whatever you like.... Unless you are honing for dollars (in which case a hone is expendable and your business is paying for it), either hone should last you your lifetime with ease.
I switched to Naniwa SS hones when I sold my Shapton GS set... and I found the 12k SS to be quite similar to my old 16K in performance, but the Naniwa SS hones are softer, and to me, nicer. That said, I was awfully happy that Danny, who purchased my GS set, lent me the old 16K hone for an indeterminate time, so now I have both. I have to admit, once in a while, I'll use the GS over the SS, mostly for feel I suppose. The GS hones are hard in comparison to the SS hones.
While the GS is a great finisher, I still go back to one of my Jnats or my Coti, just because while I like crisp edges, I don't mind a bit of softness.... And then there is this one razor... it just will not get as sharp as I like on my Jnat.... but 20 laps on the 16K Shapton snaps it to attention. 5 or 6 laps on hard woven wool with crox to remove any wire edging, then 10 super light laps on my Jnat and that razor shaves as good as any of the others.
I've been tempted to try a GOK 20K, but I'm pretty darn happy with what I have.... Now, as for you, as I said above, I think either hone is fine. If you can save some serious coin by going Pro, do that. If you have dreams of the Shapton GS holder... it's sweet, I use it for ALL my hones and I was happy to see that the Naniwa SS hones fit perfectly. The Naniwa Prof. hones are a tad short. I have no idea if the Shapton Pro hones would fit that holder, so if you are planning on getting one some day..... maybe check that out first.
I wouldn't buy the Shapton Glass diamond plate... it's just way too much money... I used to use DMT plates which were plenty good enough, but then I purchased a pair of Atoma plates and I prefer them.
So pick whichever you like.... you'll be happy with either.
Regards
Christian
I've never tried the 16k gs, but if a Naniwa 12k is smooth and crisp compared to it, I would consider it unusable lol. I don't use my 12k anymore, or any synthetic stone past 1k for that matter. Get a jnat. Save yourself from always wondering is there more? What's better? Maybe I should try this? There is nothing on this planet that compares to a jnat. You can find excellent specimens in your price range.
Slawman, I'm recently new to straight razors and honing. Not wanting to have a razor I couldn't maintain myself I looked around ALOT and liked the Shapton GS system. Once I upgraded my Gold Dollar to a Dovo I was given what I consider solid guidance, which is once you have your Dovo professional bevel set and honed to 30,000 grit than all you'll need is a 16,000 grit stone to keep it sharp. After a week of shaving it might require 5 laps on the 16k to keep it shave ready. I took the advise and bought the 16 k. Then my inner-self took over and decided I should have what I need to set bevels and hone to shave ready in the event I find a nice razor somewhere. I bought the 1k, 4k, 8, and 16k Shapton GS ceramic glass stones for my intended purpose. I like the look of the Shapton holder but I decided to save a little money and went with an amazon universal holder, which works well for me by the way. I also, like another member mentioned, decided to go with a DMT plate for flattening over the Shapton DGLP. If money isn't an issue I would have bought the entire Shapton system including the DGLP and top end holder and the 30k stone, but that hasn't happened yet. Yesterday I knocked the rust off three old razors, polished them up nicely and then set the bevel and honed all three to shave ready (16k). Today I shaved with one of them and was very happy with my first attempts and honing my own.
The stones do cut quick. The DMT 325 continuous plate works as a lapping plate but stiction can be tough, not impossible, so keep that in mind and use lots of running water. I'm happy with the direction I chose to go but now I need more razors to practice honing on.
I have the SG 16K and it does a fine job of finishing but can 'over-hone' very quickly. Great hones but a black arkansas and/or translucent arkansas does just as well IMHO for a lot less money.
I cannot agree with you that Arkansas stones are as good as Shaptons. Yes, there are a FEW that can give a good edge, but those are few and far in between. Arks are good for knives, but i will never recommend one for razors.
Very well said sir.
No problem. We can agree to disagree. I have a translucent that will remove Shapton 16K scratches. Sharper? No, about the same. Smoother? Definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGoodman
I have a well-worn surgical black that gets an edge just as sharp as the SG 16K, Same scratch pattern. Will not overhone (short of several hundred laps) and will not microchip the edge like the SG can.
In a hurry, a SG 16K will provide a very good synthetic edge. No doubt about it. I'm not usually in that big of a hurry any more. Properly lapped and burnished Arkies are very good hones for razors.
My Shuns don't need to go much over 4K and usually peak out at 1K. I use the synthetics on the knives more than I do the naturals.
I think kelbro is on the money here: the Shapton 16k is a great hone but it's fast and you've got to take care not to destroy the edge. An Arkansas won't do that but it takes quite a few strokes to get the result. That said, when you get a great Shapton edge it's really something; I worked an old Rodgers wedge today on the 16k GS (and I mean old - this one is 1850s at the latest) the hht is fantastic but only the shave tomorrow will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
First I don't know honing, don't really even want to. If I Enjoyed it, it's only a few minutes every few months, cause my blades tend to go months before needing anything other than leather. But this much I Know, some of the higher grit stones can give great shaves and some can be brutal. So my conclusion is some razors can't take the edge that far without becoming brittle.
Now I Know the pros here can deal with it, but it still seems that most of us really don't go beyond the 12k range because they go back to a natural (which 90% of the time is not even
12k) . Personally I've had edges come off of every kind of stone, and the Nani 12k done right will shave as smooth as any Jnat or coticule, Shapton, and so forth. It really is in the hands of the man using it. I understand personal reference, but I also know pride because you bought it and think it's the best, but some of the best edges I've shaved with came from much lower grit stones and good stropping.
I have a SG 20 and it doesn't get used much, most of the time the Nani 12k is all thats needed. The Shapton is pricey, but not overly, but is it that much better than a Nani 12k?
That's my take on it , you can agree or disagree, but no one has at this time showed me an edge better than a properly honed blade from a 12k Naniwa. And I have had edges from some of the best, as a matter of a fact some of the surprise edges were all Nanwa 12k,s.
Maybe i,m wrong, but someone is going to have to show me. Tc
I was/am kicking around the idea of getting a Shapton 16K but hesitate a bit wondering if all my razors can take the edge the hone can put on them without falling apart. I have also had pro honed edges that were just too sharp, not done on a Shapton 16K, for my liking as in harsh uncomfortable shave. So far that has saved me the expense of another hone past the 12K Naniwa and hanging crox pasted strop I use. In any event the Shapton 16K is not overly expensive, relatively speaking, so I may find out for myself, eventually.
Bob
Good Sunday morning TC, my fellow Tennessean,Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrideshd
I would like to take you up on that challenge to make a better edge for you than a Naniwa 12k. Maybe I'll fail, but I'm fairly confident I can do better and that you will agree sir! If you're game we can work out the details.
Mods, I do not believe accepting this challenge violates the TOU on honing, but if you feel it does please feel free to pull the post and accept my apologoes.
Should be fun!
Heers, Steve
I don't believe it breaks any rules, I,m up for it, that's why I've had so many hone for me over the years, now I only use 2 guys. , so battle on! Pm following.
Bob, if you want to my friend, would you like to try a SG 20? I can have it to you in a week, or however long it takes to cross the border, Open offer to you. Tc
I'd like to challenge that as well. The 12k is nice, but a top tier jnat is soooo much smoother.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrideshd
Bob, I haven't found a razor that couldn't handle the 16K Shapton Glass. The problem seems to occur with too many laps. Sometimes you need 6 laps, sometimes it's 10 laps. The challenge is in finding the pinnacle for each piece of steel. Just right produces fantastic edges. Two laps too many can cause microchipping and a 'harsher' shave. I typically do 6 laps and then look at the edge under the loupe. Most often, that has been plenty.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
That is a very generous offer and if I lived close enough for a personal handoff I'd gladly take you up on the offer. I am just not comfortable with they way cross border traffic can go wrong sometimes, especially with a valuable and fragile loaner like that. Many thanks though.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrideshd
Bob
I have spent the last couple of years learning the stones I have at this time. I have bought only vintage razors usually in bad need of honing & many need bevel setting. I use a King 1K to set my bevels with & have had very good luck with that hone. Until I can see that a different 1K is better than my King I will stay with it.
I am hoping I really like the 16K Shapton & if I do I may get some of the lower grit hones from them. As far as a finisher I love my little $3.00 Coti but I want a crisper edge & from what I can find a 16K Shapton is the way I want to go. I think the Shapton stones might be better for stainless blades. Don't have any yet but you never know!LOL
Thanks for all your thought's on this subject. You all are the best!
Dave"Slawman"Huffman:p
Well looks like I am going with the 15K Pro Shapton. I will let you all know how I like it.
Slawman
I really like mine, hope you like yours as much. I have zero issues or regrets. What stone holder and lapping plate did you go with, or do you already have one? So here's my dilemma, now I want to hone all the time to better my skill. I've bought a few extra razors for that purpose but they all shave great and now I don't want to trash the edge and start over. Straight razor problems I guess, such is life searching for the edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
Steve
Steve I have a Norton lapping stone at this time & am looking just like you. Funds are kind of limited at this time so I will stick with my just flattened Norton for a while. I also have a flat piece of marble I use with some 500 grit wet-dry sand paper.
Glad you like your 15K hone. If I had the $$ I would have went with the 16K glass. I think the important thing is learning the hone you have. I have a Coti that I have spent a lot of time with & after watching Dr. Matt's videos On Coti's I really like where I have got my edges. I just want to try a new hone at a higher grit & also to have options. As of yet I don't use a stone holder but I am thinking of getting the $16.00 one on Amazon
Once again, Thanks for your post.
Dave Huffman
I have a 1K King and an 800 King, both sit unused as I have moved to the Naniwa 1K Professional.... it's night and day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
Shapton 15K or 16K makes no never mind, either is fine. You WILL notice it is significantly faster. I have one razor that must have really hard steel.... it's a bugger to hone, but my Shapton 16K whips it into shape in 20 laps....
As for the lower grits in Shapton, I had the 1K, 2K, 4K, 8K and 16K. It was the 1K that convinced me to try out Naniwa... I found the Shapton "gritty" to hone on.... only without the expected speed increase based on the sound/feel. The Naniwa is fast and smooth.... add the brown turd slurry and it's even faster. I would much rather do all my honing on the Naniwa than with a DMT 325 and the Shapton 1K..... it's faster and the end result is smoother.
Now, I consider the 4K and up Shaptons to be great.... Except I felt the Naniwa SS hones feel a little better to me. I'm spoiled now, thanks to Danny who liked my Shaptons, but did NOT like the 16K, so I have both the Shapton 16K AND the Naniwa 12K. Both work great, the Shapton being much harder and yet I find some razors respond better to it than the Naniwa. You just have to learn the ins and outs of any one hone.... Once you do, you'll be happy with it.
If you are looking for crisp, smooth edge... the Shapton will not disappoint. In fact, you might find you want to tone it down a wee bit with a Natural, after your done (which is exactly what I do with a Jnat, Coticule, Zulu or Escher).
Regards
Kaptain "Spoiled for choice" Zero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
The 15k/12k Pro is not ideal for sensitive skins but I could live with it if I didn't have all my other stones.
It's one stone I would use CrO after for a few strokes.
Family came thru with gift cards for my birthday & I was able to get the 16,000 grit glass hone. Should be here in a week. Can't wait!:rock:
Slawman:beer1:
That was my take on the Pro also. Certainly usable, but a bit of a surgical feel. I tamed that edge with three laps on a natural.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
The Shapton 16K hone was in the morning mail. It was in perfect condition, no cracks or other problems. Getting ready to lap it & take it for a test drive. It seemed pretty flat but took it for a few laps on my just flattened Norton lapping stone.
Pretty good service. Ordered it on the 7th & it got here on the 13th.
The seller was Yanagi Knife in Brooklyn N.Y.
I'm a naniwa guy. You can pick and choose from the 1k Chosera through half a dozen or more superstones and be happy at the 12k level. I think money can be saved, by old fashioned progressions. say 1k Chosera 3k Superstone, 8k superstone, then straight to the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. The Gok 20 edge is repeatable and exceptional and worth the money. Another benefit to the Gok 20 is that it is hard to over hone on it, and if you have a worry three or four edge trailing strokes sort that out.
Oh no, you by passed the Shapton stone holder...Quote:
Originally Posted by 805Steve
That's my most favorite glass plastic thing in the whole world :)
The gs stones are just awesome. If I were forced to go synth I would get a full progression of them