Help with stone identification required

This stone was gifted to me by a member on a UK forum who got it as part of a package. It's quite small as you can see below and was pretty mucky before I lapped it - which was not too difficult on an Atoma and finished with wet & dry up to 1000. It slurries nicely with a pale purple colour although the stone itself is a much darker purple. The pictures are not great but I'm hoping there's enough to help identify what stone it is. In order they show wet, with slurry and dry.

Thanks in advance.
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Belgium Blue Whetstone (BBW).

Nice looking BBW, does it look like it was glued/possibly natural backer for a coticule or always a separate stone?

https://razorlovestones.wordpress.co...rouge-du-salm/
This is always a good place to look for comparison pictures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

Nice looking BBW, does it look like it was glued/possibly natural backer for a coticule or always a separate stone?

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When it came to me it was embedded in a piece of hardwood but was barely showing above surface level, so I cut it out and cleaned both sides.

I have a couple of coticules but with schist rather than BBW backing so I'm pleased to add this to my small natural stone collection.

Hard to say, what for a long time was dubbed BBW (Belgian Blue Whetstone) and regarded as just a garden variety, backing stone for cuticles, in the last few years has come into question.

Some have found the “Purple” stones, to be very fine honing stones for razors. Because they were for a long time regarded as second string, backing stones, not much was written about them or documented with photos. Also now we are finding these and other European stones were processed and marketed by others than, from where they were mined, confusing identification further. Because comparing stones visually, in many cases the “Known” stone is of questionable provenance, because of labeling and marketing.

So while it is all interesting, all that matters is how it performs. Compare the finish to a known finisher, to find where it will fit in a progression.

There is much written here in SRP and Razor & Stone on the Purple or French stones. Here is a good thread with many links and good photos.

Nice find, hope it’s a finisher, enjoy.

Slate backed German yellow razor stones?

Actually under a geological term a Lorraine Rouge or Rouge Du Salm is a different type then a BBW....

The identifiers are known and can be found in Henk Bos Grinding and Honing Part 4 on Belgian Water Whetstones.

Visually the slurry turns wine red, the polishing is very mirror like with still visible scratches. It can also be shaved of some types with only stropping leather.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doorsch

Actually under a geological term a Lorraine Rouge or Rouge Du Salm is a different type then a BBW....

The identifiers are known and can be found in Henk Bos Grinding and Honing Part 4 on Belgian Water Whetstones.

Visually the slurry turns wine red, the polishing is very mirror like with still visible scratches. It can also be shaved of some types with only stropping leather.

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Doors, thank you for the information about the red stones - do you have a link to Henk's identifiers? Also I was a little unsure as to whether you think this a straightforward BBW or maybe something different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UKRob

Doors, thank you for the information about the red stones - do you have a link to Henk's identifiers? Also I was a little unsure as to whether you think this a straightforward BBW or maybe something different.

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yes sure...here is the link:
Index website Henk en Ge Bos

Download part 4 and switch to Lorriane Rouge / Rouge Du Salm


Identifiers are:
- a very reddish coloration of the slurry, tending towards a wine red
- sometimes white lines or lighter purple/orange dots can appear
- the stone gives a very good polishing effect
- estimation of a comparable synthethic grit reaches up to 8K

usage of oil, honing solution or water-glycerine can give a better edge,
it can be shaved off the stones with only stropping on leather

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Hard to say, what for a long time was dubbed BBW (Belgian Blue Whetstone) and regarded as just a garden variety, backing stone for cuticles, in the last few years has come into question.

Some have found the “Purple” stones, to be very fine honing stones for razors. Because they were for a long time regarded as second string, backing stones, not much was written about them or documented with photos. Also now we are finding these and other European stones were processed and marketed by others than, from where they were mined, confusing identification further. Because comparing stones visually, in many cases the “Known” stone is of questionable provenance, because of labeling and marketing.

So while it is all interesting, all that matters is how it performs. Compare the finish to a known finisher, to find where it will fit in a progression.

There is much written here in SRP and Razor & Stone on the Purple or French stones. Here is a good thread with many links and good photos.

Nice find, hope it’s a finisher, enjoy.

Slate backed German yellow razor stones?

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+1. I well recall the old barbers I got coticules from in the 1980s (3 different barbers) telling me the backing was just for reinforcement, not for honing. They referred to the coticules as 'soap stones' because they used the lather from their Lather King hot lather machines as the honing vehicle.

Also, the Old Rock & Deep Rock marketed stones had the labels glued onto the BBW, further signification that the stone wasn't considered suitable for honing at that time. Bruno posted pics a long time ago of BBW used as stones for fences, and for a house façade !

The stone could be a Lorraine/ Rouge du Salm, but it looks more like a Belgian blue.
Also, the stone appears to be a bit thin. Could it be simply the backing from a coticule combo... with no coticule left on it?
I have two pieces about the same size, the one is a Belgian blue (really soft, you can scratch it with your nail, hand picked) and a Lorraine stone. If you think that pictures with the two stones for the colors, dry/wet/slurry would be helpful, I can take some and upload them.

Off topic kinda, but to add to how BBW was considered scrap I remember seeing photos somewhere of a house that had BBW roofing tiles.

Its nothing special and i dont see what these informations bring any advantage....

Its known that a lot of vintage and also actual quarries deliver products of a general use (roofing slate, garden pebbles, etc.). It was always needed to run a business...

Many of the quarries would not have operated sucessfully if they would not have sold these types of products.

German Slate was used for all types of Slate Products (like slate pencils and slate tiles) besides that it delivered good razor hones

Coticules are actually re-used for garden pebbles for decoration.

https://youtu.be/tYqMq4RmIvg

BBW is re-used for general purposes. As it is today used for sharpening razors and knives.

Vermont Slate is produced for slate tiles, on the other hand it can be well used for finishing razors

Welsh slate is used for roofing slates, slate tiles, adress signs, etc...so it is used for honing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doorsch

Its nothing special and i dont see what these informations bring any advantage....

Its known that a lot of vintage and also actual quarries deliver products of a general use (roofing slate, garden pebbles, etc.). It was always needed to run a business...

Many of the quarries would not have operated sucessfully if they would not have sold these types of products.

German Slate was used for all types of Slate Products (like slate pencils and slate tiles) besides that it delivered good razor hones

Coticules are actually re-used for garden pebbles for decoration.

https://youtu.be/tYqMq4RmIvg

BBW is re-used for general purposes. As it is today used for sharpening razors and knives.

Vermont Slate is produced for slate tiles, on the other hand it can be well used for finishing razors

Welsh slate is used for roofing slates, slate tiles, adress signs, etc...so it is used for honing.

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Sebastian is right.
In an interesting conversation I had with Maurice in the coticule workshop, he told me that about half the income from the quarry comes from the useless stone above/below/between the coticule/Belgian blue stone layers, with the other half coming from the stones.
That material is a formation with a reddish, from black-deep brown to orange color, and is used in brickworks and general building/infrastructure industry among other things, I'm sure others here in the forum know more details.
As for the use of BBW as roofing tiles, or slabs used for building, it's not that easy to find it; there is a limited availability from what I saw, the wear resistance is not optimal (coticule is a really sensitive stone, it gets damaged really easily if left outside the earth, and our homes), Belgian blue is not the best option out there. Extracting it and cutting it is also hard, especially without power tools... pretty much any hard slate out there would be a better option. I of course, don't doubt that it was used, but I don't think there are entire villages with houses made out of that stone for walls and roof tiles.
On the other hand, the above material that is useless as a hone also comes in... same colors with a Belgian blue stone, there is a huge quantity of it unlike our two loved types of stones from there and should have better wear resistance, so, maybe some of these roof tiles were pieces of that material.

The floor tiles, patio tiles, window ledges and kitchen top in my Brussels house are all Belgian Blue.

Pictures of BB construction projects:

Belgian Bluestone – projects using Belgian Bluestone

But not all BB is honing grade or same color (e.g. my near-black kitchen top is full of fossils, chosen deliberately and it's harder).

Here's my BBW, similar to Rob's, on the kitchen top:

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psi2irrip6.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doorsch

yes sure...here is the link:
Index website Henk en Ge Bos

Download part 4 and switch to Lorriane Rouge / Rouge Du Salm


Identifiers are:
- a very reddish coloration of the slurry, tending towards a wine red
- sometimes white lines or lighter purple/orange dots can appear
- the stone gives a very good polishing effect
- estimation of a comparable synthethic grit reaches up to 8K

usage of oil, honing solution or water-glycerine can give a better edge,
it can be shaved off the stones with only stropping on leather

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I compared the colours and it's pretty obvious that I have a small BBW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichaelS

The floor tiles, patio tiles, window ledges and kitchen top in my Brussels house are all Belgian Blue.

Pictures of BB construction projects:

Belgian Bluestone – projects using Belgian Bluestone

But not all BB is honing grade or same color (e.g. my near-black kitchen top is full of fossils, chosen deliberately and it's harder).

Here's my BBW, similar to Rob's, on the kitchen top:

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psi2irrip6.jpg

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MichaelS,
If I'm not mistaken, the description from the site says "Les Carrières de la Pierre Bleue Belge SA are among the leaders in quarrying, sawing and crafting blue stone in Europe. Our three quarries in the Soignies region of Belgium produce more than 50,000 m3 of Petit Granit-Belgian Blue Stone per year."

If I'm not mistaken, the coticule quarry is in the Luxembourg province and like 10km from Luxembourg country on a straight line. Soignies, the place that stone is extracted is on the other side of the country.
That decorative stone is beautiful, it is from Belgium, it looks bluish, but it's not Belgian blue (whetstone, Ardennes, BBW).
Different area, different stone. I assume you do know it, and, is there a chance people who were seeing blue/purple stones on walls and rooftops to actually be that material? The quantity they extract from there is big.