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I am new to honing and I have recently bought a King 1000 grit stone. I was warned it is a slow cutter when setting the bevel. I have used this stone on 5 straight razors. I have spent an hour trying to set the bevel on each razor.
The end result seems as good as my professionally honed razor but I question if I am overdoing it?
I am open to any feedback to help me improve my skills.
Thanks,
Aaron
The bevel is the key to good shaves. You didn't say what the next stone in progression is. Not to worry.
If you like the edge you get from it, it is fine. I would say that you are getting fast service unless your blades have a very tiny bevel. I had one as my first stone and I still use it occasionally.
Enjoy the trip!
~Richard
I begin with the king then progress to the norton 4000/8000, then Ch12k and finish off with paste.
My bevels are good by not great. I really rely on the Norton 4000.
It's impossible to say if you are overdoing it based on you sharing the amount of time you took. The amount of time it takes to set a bevel varies widely based on what the blade was like to start with. Then there are other factors like amount of pressure, stroke pattern/speed, how often you rise off the hone, etc.
I notice the king 1000 can work much faster with slurry. You might give it a try if you haven't already. You can set the bevel with slurry then do some passes on clean water before moving on.
IMHO, Reaching the apex of the blade edge at its centreline is a properly set bevel. If you have accomplished that to the best of the stone's ability / cutting pattern then anything beyond on that stone is overdone. Once accomplished however, your progression to a fine edge is where the pros are separated from the rest of us :)
Just my $.02
Mike
Yup, as said, it depends on what you were starting with.
I have a King,1k, and others, they work just fine. When it comes to 1k’s, they all work about the same, some feel different but, they all leave a 1k finish.
It is not unusual for a new honer to spend a long time setting a bevel, make sure you are using tape and check it often to protect the spine. There is no point in needlessly wearing the spine.
Like someone else mentioned it all depends on how the SR looked at the begging. If it is in a regular condition, no big chips or things like that, how long does it takes you in order to get the SR to shave arm hair? One hour approximately?
If we're talking about a 'gently used' ebay find I don't think an hour to set the bevel is really all that out of the ordinary. Especially if you're new to it. It still takes me a while because I check early and often to see what kind of progress I'm making. I try not to watch the clock and just focus on getting where I need to be.
A 1K stone by any manufacturer is only going to get the edge so good, we all rely on the next hones in our progressions to get the edge where we want it. Otherwise we'd just stop at 1K and call it good. The Norton 4K is a real work horse, I've found often times I can set the bevel OK with just that if there are no chips or dings to worry about.
If you're spending an hour just on the 1k I think you are probably overdoing it. Especially if it took that long on each of your 5 razors. Just check to see if it cuts arm/leg hair smoothly at the toe/belly/heal and then you can probably move on to the 4k and that usually wouldn't take an hour.
I have the King 1k I would generally spend about 10 minutes or so on it. I have had some razors where things didn't go that smoothly but in generally that's about how long it takes at that stage.
My King 1200 works great and is very fast with slurry.
With bevel setting, check often and when it starts cutting hair, check after every 5 laps or so and when it cuts uniform heel to toe move up to the next hone
Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but keeping the stone lapped is of the utmost importance lest you lap off the bevel on each stroke. I struggled with this for months. Think of trying to sharpen something in a concave dish, your basically sharpening the edge off the blade on each lap....
Basic question: how do I know when to relap my stones? I lapped all my stones when I got then, honed 3 razors thus far, can't see any difference on the hones surfaces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerdvaark
At least once per razor bevel setting session. Certainly won't hurt. Much much easier to stay on top of this way. If you wait till after 3 or more razors, your going to have some work to do. Its probably also the secret to the perfect edge.
It should only take a few minutes to set the bevel on a razor. The tricky part is to recognize when the work is done. The experienced guys can do this by look and the feel on the stones. I can't, so I use the tomato test. Search it on YouTube.
I just checked out the tomato test on YouTube. Very cool. I will have to try that.
Whatever works for you, use it. Just make sure you test the whole edge.
The quickest and easiest it to develop the TPT thumb pad test. Touch every sharp object you can find with your thumb, eventually you will know what sharp is. It should feel sticky, as you cut the first layer of skin, not enough to bleed.
You lap your stones when they feel rough or the buildup swarf. It depends on the stone. Kings do not load up like some of the Naniwia do. A lot depends on the composition of the stone.
You don’t really lap it, (a full lap) just give it a few swipes with a diamond plate to make sure they are smooth. Most folks grid lap when new, then just refresh periodically.
I use the tomato test but I also found grapes will work fine also.
Slawmeister:rock:
The one thing I do if I buy a razor is clean & sanitize it then try it out. If it gives a reasonable shave or cuts a grape well it probably does NOT need the bevel set. In this case I would start with a 3 to 5K stone.
Dave H.
A sharp knife can slice a tomato. A razor whose bevels almost meet also will slice a tomato. That test will only tell you that you are somewhat close, but it is not an adequate test.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron27
I guess a shave is the best test but a tomato or grape when used with very little or no pressure is pretty darn close.
I agree, and the darn close part was my point--close but not complete. An edge that can slice a tomato with no pressure still can reflect some light when looking straight down on the edge.
When I read the post about using slurry with the King 1000 I had to try it out. All I can say is WOW! Turned my King into a different stone. I think for now I will stay with the King for now. Think I may get a Shapton glass 6K or 8K hone instead. I don't have a good middle grit stone at the moment other than my Coti. so I am leaning towards the 6K Shapton glass.
I realize that some day I will need to upgrade from my King but I set the bevel on a 5/8" Hamilton that someone had butchered the edge pretty bad so I used the the king with slurry & then with out slurry & it worked great.
That said I am also thinking of a KMG lapping plate. I will just have to see what Santa brings me! HO HO HO! Merry Christmas to all my SRP friends! Hope Santa is good to all!
Dave"Slawman"Huffman
Well, I started out with a Norton 1K hone. The way I see it, that gets the bevel set, but what your face feels - and the ones that are more interesting for me to play with - are finishers. In light of that when I wore about half of that 1K combination hone away, I replaced it with another Norton 1K. Cheap, effective, and I could divert the money I didn't spend on a pricier 1K into finishers.
Maybe it would be worth it to upgrade if you find yourself restoring/honing a significant amount of razors on the 1k. But for maintaining my small stable of blades a better (and pricier) 1K just wasn't needed.
Such is my 2 cents at any rate.
What your face feels may come from the finisher, but the most significant work is done on the bevel setter. Because bevel setters are relatively cheap compared to finishers, in my opinion it is nice to use a good, if not great, bevel setter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Agreed, much better off using a few different tests. Thumb pad , nail etc as well as visual.
King 1k is the only synthetic I have kept. A work horse, not the fastest but reliable.
I tried a King 1k at a Chicago meet up a few years ago and decided that it was the only commonly mentioned 1k that I did not want to bother owning. Have you tried any other 1k hones that you did not like as well as the King?Quote:
Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER
No, most others were similar if not better, they were much faster than the king and we're splash and go.. I just enjoy the smaller width and smooth feeling of it. If I were to upgrade it would be to a naniwa or shapton glass. Maybe one day I will. The king is just very cheap for the beginner just wanting to dip their toes in the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
That said if I had other 1k hones the king 1k isn't worth picking up. IMO of course.
There's no denying that the bevel setter is where the brunt of the work is done. But I haven't had to dig out my 1K hone in months because I've only got 2 razors that really need any sort of bevel work. The rest are all in maintenance mode, so unless I drop and ding one my honing is all done on a finisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Besides, a King 1K is in the top 4 I see suggested. The only place to really go from there is a Chosera/Pro 1K which cost 3x what most of my finishers have, or a Naniwa Traditional 1K maybe on the cheap end.
I don't feel the need to "upgrade" the King either. It sets the bevel. What more does it need to do? :)
I have 13 vintage straights. Most will probably never need to go to the bevel setter again. I'm working on a few of them, testing, playing around and I always have the desire to buy "just one more" vintage from Ebay to fix up but I like to be economical with the hones or minimalist if you like.
I'd like to have a coticule and Jnat with all the slurry stones but I get my blades sharp with what I have so "going to the next level" would just be for the fun of honing and I'd have to be in the mood to spend a lot more to get there.
Even so, I probably wouldn't replace the King as bevel setter.
If you do go natural, using a 1k bevel setter, (any 1k), will make your life much easier. I have or have tried them all, or at least the most popular.
Really all 1k’s perform much the same, they can feel different some smooth some gritty, but all leave a 1k finish, ready for the next stone in the progression.
Really don’t over think this, it is way more about technique and setting a solid bevel from heel to toe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
These are all valid points and I agree with all of them. If one has just a "few" razors, then once their bevels are set your 1k hone is superfluous; and the best or most efficient bevel setter is not particularly necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcbryan
I never had considered that someone would prefer a smaller bevel setter, so thanks for setting me straight on that one.
I do recommend the Naniwa Traditional 1k. It performs very well for a comparably great price.