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I am interested in knowing what are good methods of testing the flatness of hones. I Have used the pencil and lapping that off, but am wondering if it would be better to get a straight edge to check with. Would like recommendations for this, and on how close a person has to be about this?
Thanks,
Binder
If you lapped off a pencil grid using a DMT diamond plate, Atoma diamond plate or even just a piece of glass and some loose grit or wet/dry paper, you've already gone waaaay further than most did back when straight razors were the norm.
There is zero need to go any further, and besides, a straight edge is NOT the correct tool for the job.
Once pencil grid lapped... the act of cleaning the hones is generally sufficient to keep the hone in good condition. GSsixgun shows what he does in a series of videos he has on youtube.com, as does Lynn Abrams. Both of these gents hone for money and you can take their advice to the bank.
Regards
Christian
Lapping off the pencil marks will get you flatter than looking for light under a straight edge :)
We are honing with them and not building pianos. The pencil grid gets you pretty flat and honestly that should be ok. Presuming of course you lapped the pencil grid of on a flat surface like a DMT or granite slab. There are some really soft lapping stones out there that themselves need to be flattened every now and again.
Yeah I recently ordered one of those norton flattener stones. Hoping it'll cut faster than my dmt, even if I have to lap it semi-frequentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Sandpaper on a kitchen worktop will achieve the same at a much lower price. And yes: it does not have to be 110% flat.
I dunno, Ken. I rather like a worn DMT325 better. I found the Norton flattener needs flattening ITSELF after a bit. :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWeir
TBH, as long as a stone is close, absolute flatness is overrated, JMO.
On my synthetic waterstones, I mostly have taken to hitting the DMT for maintenance purposes only. To get them cleaned-off and auto-slurrying properly again. I can look at the stone and tell when I am there. No need for the aggressive grid.
On ,say, my Escher hone. Since It is lightly slurried every time I use it and it is used so lightly, it only saw flattening as I first received it.
Never since.... Just me!
Coming from YOU, Kaptain Zero, This means everything! :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by kaptain_zero
The question of flatness comes up from time to time regarding hones. IMHO mostly flat is fine. No need for straight edges or feeler gauges. If you have lapped a pencil grid off your hone, it will be fine. I use an Atoma 400, but not necessarily to lap hones every couple of months. If you are a hobbyist, your hones will be fine for a long time. A video from some years back by Gssixgun, (Mentioned a page back)where he puts his naniwa superstones in water for a few minutes prior to use, then gives half a dozen figure 8's, leaving a little slurry on the hone, is an excellent method. I adopted it a few years back, and it is the best method of using Naniwa Superstones for honing. Doing the half dozen figure 8's keeps your hone going for long while. It also in my view disrupts the surface of the hone, which exposes fresh stone, and removes any gunk in the surface. I use the method exclusively, and I can't speak highly enough of it. I use naniwa's from the Chosera 1k to Superstones 2k to 10k, finishing on the Gok 20k, and even it gets half a dozen 8's before use.
A hundred and ten percent flat?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
:bow
I've had 2 Nortons so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWeir
The first one I completely wrecked trying to flatten some old Arkies. Basically turned it into a bowl in spite of my best effort to use the entire surface. This was before I discovered the DMT or made the connection that a flattening stone could be soft enough to get out of flat. That said...I'd rather wreck a $30 Norton stone on an Arkansas hone than a $60 DMT.
The Norton hone does do better lapping Arkies than a worn DMT. Slurry is your friend in that endeavor. I find the key is 100 laps on the Arkie, 10-20 on the DMT to keep the Norton flat enough to get the job done. Saves wear on the DMT, use that for heavy razor grinding and stones that don't suck out loud to flatten.
It also gets better after breaking in. Right out of the box it leaves some pretty deep scratches in everything. My Current Norton flattener cuts pretty good without making deep scratches. It's also about as flat as my DMT can make it.
For most endeavors I side with folks that like a well worn DMT. For things that are liable to tear through/finish off a DMT, or cost $50 or more in sand paper to flatten, there's the Norton flattening stone. Fortunately those hard naturals don't need regular flattening and burnishing.
I can see that! The Norton flattener is great on the lawnmower blade too! :tu
In my opinion, and from my understanding, the Norton flattening hone is only meant to be used for synthetic water hones. I certainly would not use one for an Arkansas hone.
I'm sure that's what they're designed and intended for. But like everything else, theoretical intended use and actual application may or may not coincide. Basically when working on my 12"x3" Arkansas stone, I found my DMT slowing down drastically. To the point if I didn't stop, the hone was going to be utterly worthless and probably long before that large stone got flat. I tried the Norton out of sheer desperation rather than buy another DMT just to tear it up on a large Arkie, and found it cuts about as well as a DMT with the added benefit of having more cutting material underneath the surface stuff the Arkie was dulling out. But at the end of the day I ran out of steam before I fully flattened that large stone. Oversized Translucent 1, me 0. Maybe one day I'll get that SOB...Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I prefer my grandfather's trick for those. 5 minutes with a metal file and good to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Yeah, Trying to smooth an old dished Arkie begins at the sidewalk! :rofl2:
Same difference, I suppose! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
It actually wasn't old and dished, that's what gets me! The thing looked unused, but the surface was raised along the center all the way down the hone on both sides. I'm not sure if the original owner wore out their EZE-LAP diamond plate on it and goofed up in the process, or if it just came a little wonky from the mine. But that thing is a fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
I'm tempted to buy a throw away DMT just to finish it off, but then I'll have to sand out the scratches and burnish it. :banghead:
May be the above advise on the WD sandpaper on a flat surface is how to begin?
Personally, high along the center sounds intriguing to me?
Looks as if someone was dragging the blade off both sides of the hone?....Knives!
I AM a 'center of the hone' Type! :rofl2:
It's size is the operative issue in that endeavoer. It's too long for the pan I used to use with my sand paper flattening endeavors. Loose grit SIC powder sounds promising if I can find a large enough piece of glass that I wouldn't mind wrecking.
That, should be easy enough! ;)
Isn't the Norton flattening stone SiC? Should eat up most anything.
Indeed! Including it'self!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
It is. And that's why I mentioned using it with slurry. Using a DMT to get some bits of that SiC loose made it faster than it already was. But whatever they use as a binder seems like it isn't as hard as it could/should be for what it is. They wear fairly quickly, particularly when used for purposes other than Norton intended. I've got a feeling if used exclusively for synthetic water hones they would last much, much longer than when abused and put to the task of flattening a hard natural.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
I suppose that makes you the Norton Flattening Hone King of Arkies! (something such?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
All hail! :beer1:
Well that's all I wanted mine for was the nortonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
I think the title "somebody with more free time than common sense" is perhaps more applicable at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
The flatness of your stone does not have to be within NASA tolerances. The pencil grid method has served us well. I think if you were to use a straight edge test, you would end up chasing your tail, and eating up too much of your stone.
I never really tried to use mine on anything other than the Norton synthetics. Once I got that rubber that came with my Chosera 1K, that's all that I used on the Nortons. It worked so well that I didn't need the flattener any more.
Yeah, it certainly works a treat on the Chosera. Think I will try it on my Norton hones as well for a while!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
I've been wanting to get one of those, or the one made by Norton for my synthetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Loose grit on a cookie sheet will get flat in a few minutes with loose 60 grit Silicon Carbide and an assortment up to 500 grit, for $15.
For large stones, you can get large commercial cookie sheets or a large marble tile or slab from Habitat for Humanity and make a dam with folded Duct Tape. It will contain the slurry.
I have a 20X18 in marble slab, I paid $2 for.
No need to trash a diamond plate, Arks will pull out diamonds.
Yep I Got My First Stones Flat AllRight!!!!!!!!!!!!! Washed Them Right Down The Drain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But Hey They Were Flat!!!!!!!!!!!!Didnt Do That Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ty
Flatter than flat or supadupa flat if you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian