Slurry stones too!!

I think earlier on in this hobby I did not really see the need for a slurry stone. I thought that if the natural stone was any good it would not need it. That led to a lot of disappointing experiences with different types of hones. Escher DB was too slow, Vermio and ILR virtually worthless on their own without making hundreds of laps, CNAT was too sticky etc...

The reason I did not use them also was because I thought it would dull the edge, I could not have been more wrong. Then when I decided to start using them there was some improvement but the Vermio and ILR might as well not have slurry stones because it either took too long to raise a slurry or after getting some it didn't help much with their included slurry stones. Not the case for the Escher DB though, that sped things up nicely and produced a great shaving edge.

Fast forward to now. I have limitless ways to make great edges. Try using a light green thuri slurry stone with a Vermio or ILR..... I really don't think it gets any better than that, IMO of course. But that has been my experience, try different slurry stones on different stones and be prepared to open another world of honing. Universe actually, endless combinations... Try thinking of slurry stones as a catalyst.

This applies to naturals only though IME.

Endless combinations indeed! I have a C12K as a base stone with a bag full of slurry stones. Talk about fun!!! Not very expensive either plus it gives so many options. Now I am committed to Arkansas stones but reading stuff like this i remember how fun slurry stones were.

That's right! My Spyderco UF and Arkie translucent do not need slurry stones and put an incredible edge on any given blade.

My C12K and my soft Arkansas are favorites to use as base hones with slurry. It seems like with either one of those 2, and the right combination of slurry stones, the type of work you can do is nearly endless. On the C12k in particular I've done everything from light bevel setting all the way up through finishing.

I've been looking around and seriously contemplating picking up some nagura stones for use with the Chinese stone. Particularly on the low end, like that yellow one Kees posted about a little while ago. I've got a lot of higher grit stones, but those really are of limited use in the grand scheme of things.

My favorite is a little piece of coticule I got from SRD, but it would be nice to find a more coarse slurry stone.

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Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

I think earlier on in this hobby I did not really see the need for a slurry

This applies to naturals only though IME.

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Are you sure ????

There is Magic in the Mud for some

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Originally Posted by Marshal

but if would be nice to find a more coarse slurry stone.

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There are plenty out there Norton has a prepstone that I used for hundreds of razors before I bought a 1k

The 400 grit prep stone that comes with Chosera hone works pretty good too

Or, just do a nagura search on that auction site. Many good options, some I've tried like the 8k synthetic and 10k natural. Both from the same sale page. Pick your option or options.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There are plenty out there Norton has a prepstone that I used for hundreds of razors before I bought a 1k

The 400 grit prep stone that comes with Chosera hone works pretty good too

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I was thinking more along the lines of natural stones. But I was under the assumption those were made of something intended to scuff up synthetic hones and prep them for use, not to break down and behave like a nagura stone? Might be worth looking into, I've been meaning to get the Norton prep stone for my Norton 1, 4, and 8.

I cut about a 3/8 inch piece off the end of my 4/8 Norton.

Yeah, I've been tinkering around more lately with different slurries (more variables can just make this mind-boggling, but in a fun way). My C12k rubbing stone works great on the PHIG it was cut from (does that make it a tomo nagura?), or on a big slate hone I use for knives. A DMT slurry has a lot of uses, and I've even "lapped" a couple of naturals with my Norton 8k and gotten great results with the silky yellow slurry.

Glenn, I've heard others talk of using the clay "biscuit" that comes with the Chosera 1k for early bevel-setting work or similar, but I've been reluctant to try it. I guess I need to give it a go.

Thanks for the inspiration all-my next honing session will involve "playing in the mud."

Looks like mine Marshal :tu

There's slurry stones and dressing stones. Dressing stones are used to clean and refresh the surface. The Naniwa dressing stone does not show a grit size so I doubt whether it is supposed to be used as a slurry stone.

The dressing stone that came with my Chosera 1K works very well to clean up the swarf on my Norton 4K/8K and my Shapton Glass Stones.

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Originally Posted by Kees

There's slurry stones and dressing stones. Dressing stones are used to clean and refresh the surface. The Naniwa dressing stone does not show a grit size so I doubt whether it is supposed to be used as a slurry stone.

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Well...that's why I had to ask before jumping up to place an order. Of course one has to keep in mind that what a thing is made for in theory does not always match up with how it's used in reality.

For example, when I put in the order for the dressing stone, I also ordered a Naniwa 800 grit stone. The cheaper one, not the Chosera. Obviously this is made to hone things, and part of it may see some of that action. But I'm gonna cut a half inch piece off there and see how it works out as a low grit slurry stone. If it turns to mud as easy as my other synthetics this could be a whole new realm of slurry for me. Full bevel set to shave ready on a PHIG? Chip repair without (fully) defaulting to a 1K synthetic?

See! That's what I'm talking about!!

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Originally Posted by Marshal

Of course one has to keep in mind that what a thing is made for in theory does not always match up with how it's used in reality.

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You're absolutely right. My guess is that dressing stones are of a less uniform grit size. So even if you can produce a slurry with one you might find that it damages your edge.

Hmm, maybe. But Naniwa seems to run a pretty tight ship. Norton would probably have errant junk particles, I heard their 4Ks took a bit of a quality hit after they moved production to Mexico.

Well, if for whatever reason the prep stone doesn't work the Super Stone 800 chunk should get me where I wanna go. The prep stone will still be good for cleaning up my synthetics, and they kinda need it. My Norton 4K is turning black.

The Naniwa dressing stone is made of silica particles, so every usual Corundum (AlOx) Whetstone will abrade the particles, if you rub it with a flat side on it. This is meant for cleaning, opening and conditioning the stone, on top of that you keep your stone reasonably flat and smooth. You can use this stone for slurry too, up to 5K whetstones i didn't see any bigger particles. The stria pattern under the loupe looks like sandblasted and less of the usual grinding pattern than with water only. The stone will stay a lot cleaner, if you use a bit of slurry and the sharpenging will be a bit faster. Whenever you use slurry, the likelihood of a strong burr reduces and if you use alternating strokes the edge will be uniform and slightly less keen than with water only.

You can test it with your kitchen knives. If you like the edge from a 5K you can try to use the 5K with the Naniwa dressing stone and a bit of slurry. If found it to be more usefull than the King Nagura stone (the small yellow one).

For higher grid stones i use Metalmaster artificial resin bonded stones of 10K and 15K. The 10K on my 8K Naniwa combination stone produces a very smooth edge, if i continue with 15K slurry on my 12K Shapton it will tame the harshness and irritating sharpness to a nice and sharp edge. I'm not shure, but i guess you will be able to achive this with a normal 12K Naniwa superstone with a bit of slurry (a hard bonded 3000 oilstone will create enough slurry on every 8K whetstone and above).

I like to play around with different slurries on my natural stones too. The benefit is a slightly different characteristics how the edge feels. I found it to be very beneficial, because i tend to handle razors differently depending on their size. When i think i can improve the edge a bit after a testshave i do my daily routine of playing around until one day (usually on the second or third day) i find the edge i like most for the given razor.

I had some slurry fun today

Attachment 254480

I took my workhorse Thomas Turner to the hones. It arguably didn't need more than a pasted strop but what is a guy to do when experimenting? ;)

Norton 8K slurry on the 8K diluted to plain water as I went. Then the new to me twist I put 8k slurry on the PHIG and diluted that to what I thought was plain water. I am not a lap counter but after many on the PHIG I called it good. As you can see in the picture the PHIG is drying and I was surprised to see so much yellow yet on the dry part. None visible when wet.

It looks good under my scope and judging from arm hair I am sure it will be an excellent shave tomorrow.

I've piled up a lot of nagura over the years, the only synthetic being an 8K (king?) that I don't ever use. In my opinion, japanese nagura stones are the most fun to play with, but also coticules (not necessarily on a coticule), thuris, or whatever other soft rock one might find with some abrasive qualities. I'd recommend getting some cheap jnats, cutting and playing around with them. One $50-70 dollar stone may make 3-4 nice naguras to share between friends. Plain Mikawa shiro nagura may be good and cheap, just figure out what it does. I fell in love with a Suita stone recently (take that as you will) and the nagura I made out of one stone is such a helpful little tool. Erases 1K marks very easily and quickly. I also regularly use my Asano set, Botan, Tenjyou and Mejiro.. they just work well, I can feel the improvement on my face.

I like finding out things like, if I go through my Suita step properly, I go to Mejiro, then a fine tomo nagura and I know the edge will be stellar. Like so, I make up slurry progressions that work and note them down. Endless combinations indeed..

Yep, did the same thing with one of my suita's. Great idea with cutting up cheap jnats. I have not run across one nagura that did not produce a fine shaving edge. I just ordered a small black thuri slurry stone that I can't wait to shave off of.

Like so, I did this in 20 seconds. Sharp chisel and light taps is all it takes. It's a dirty rock and I guess folks might recognize the maker's stamp. I picked the worst spot to split it at, I'm gonna lap it tonight to see if I can get to a clean surface.

https://vimeo.com/199661581

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Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

I think earlier on in this hobby I did not really see the need for a slurry stone. I thought that if the natural stone was any good it would not need it. That led to a lot of disappointing experiences with different types of hones. Escher DB was too slow, Vermio and ILR virtually worthless on their own without making hundreds of laps, CNAT was too sticky etc...

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In the early days of Vermio, Keith Johnson (tomonagura) made a Youtube video honing on it. I think that was an honest review. I remember him saying that slurry VS no slurry on Vermio made little, to no difference. Not sure that I agree with that, my experience has been different. I go as far as to use glycerine on a Vermio to push it even further. There is a definite difference.

As for the DB Escher, I own that one too, and yes the slurry speeds it up. Like Vermio, it's a finishing stone. It isn't supposed to cut fast, but to polish and mellow down the edge. Anyway, that's just my experience and my stones. As with all natural stones, no two specimens are the same.

CNAT, I've only tried one. I read there is a big variation between them, so it's hard to make a valid comment. The one I used also gets sticky, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. A stone that is fine and doesn't get too sticky (jnats and Eschers, some coticules come to mind) can cost high $$$, due to their properties and performance. In my experience, I want the cnat to get real sticky because that's when I know it's maxed out. It's just how that particular stone works.

Kieth was using the Vermio slurry stone, that explains its lack of effect. I don't even use the slurry stone from the vermio on anything because it is of the highest hardness, nothing cuts into it. However, use any othre slurry or nagura and then you will see an entirely different side of the vermio. It can cut fast, slow, fine, medium and course.
I totally agree with you on the stickiness factor.

Seems like the Vermio is very hard , slow cuting stone , that is exelent base stone for all kind of slurry experiments , and pure joy .

Exactly, and the only thing jnats offer as an advantage is simply increased speed at which this all happens. And of course the speed in which they cut without any slurry stone is exponentially higher.

Well Jnats are unique and top of the top - edge of the blade , tip of the spear and ect .
i was thinking that with slurry stones from diferent stones you can get the effect of the brazilian hone - hard base with more neutral qualitys and fast rubber stone for nagura .

Got the Naniwa 800 and dressing stone in today. I went to cut a piece off the Naniwa, and figured a wood blade would probably get the job done even if I had to sacrifice the blade. Well, it kinda did - 2/3 of it before it was just too worn down to cut anything anymore. The piece broke off during blade extraction, but that's OK. A slurry stone doesn't need to be a perfect rectangle.

It turns to mud kinda like a piece of coticule. But cuts a hell of a lot faster. Almost as fast as the 800 grit hone itself when turned into a slurry on my PHIG. Could easily be used for setting bevels, not so effective for chip removal I think. But that's OK because I still have 7" of Naniwa 800 grit hone that abrades steel scary fast for something that feels like a ceramic tile.

Still feeling out the dressing stone. I got hung up on getting a new blade shave ready so I didn't really play with it much.

You can get a carbide blade that will fit in a hack saw frame for about 5 bucks, sold for cutting tiles.

Or you can use a hacksaw blade, it will trash the blade but should make a single cut. I have cut small pieces from natural stone with a hacksaw blade.

I like your style, rock on…

I seriously considered the carbide blade option. But that would've required a trip to the hardware store. Which would've postponed playing with hones. And we can't have that.

:nono:

So I used what was lying around.

I just began using a Sawzall with a long Bi-Metal blade. I'm able to get about 8 nagura/slurry stones before changing the blade.
Harbor Frieght 19.99 Sawzall and a 9.99 pack of long Bi-Metal blades.

I would recomend a brick cutting blade. It's a twice as thick, but still very thin(hope this makes sense). Makes it easier to make sraight line and thin cut. I to play with my thuri slurry stones(4 colors), frankonian, and nakayama tomo on my jnat(mostly bacause only stone hard enough to not get scraches). I realy like the versatility it brings out of that stone. I love my yg/b thuri but cant handle the frankonian or the nakayama slurry stone, it is to soft even though it is a hard version.