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So I have Shapton Kuromaku 1k, 5k and 8k hones inbound they should arrive in the next couple days. I did not get a DMT and will in the future, but for now what grit paper can I lap these on? I am thinking around 400 wet/dry on glass for the 1k and on the other 2 start at 400 and finish on around 600 or 1000 wet/dry? Just seeking my best option until I get the DMT thanks as always for your suggestions.
Sounds like a good plan. Just draw the grid, lap it off, repeat. Finish at around 800-1000 sounds fine, as well.
Or you can just stick with the 400 for all of them.
Ok thank you both for replies, just wanted to make sure before getting after it. Much appreciated.
The 1k I would probably stop at 320/400 ish. My synthetics that are higher grit at least get treated to 1k to get the 320/400 grit scratches out. I'm also quite picky and pseudo religious when it comes to surface prep.
Try it at 400 and see what you get. If you don't like the result you can always bump it up to 1k.
Yea, depends on the stone, 300-400 on the 1 & 5k, I take 8k and up to a 1k diamond plate and 20k SG, to a worn 1200 plate.
The higher lapping grits, are probably unnecessary, as a high grit synthetic stone smooths out, rather quickly with use, but it does not hurt.
I lap with a 400/1k plate, so that is what I use.
Thanks Marshal and Euclid, I am thinking I will order a DMT8c in the near future and for now I will have to use paper and flat surface. I was kinda figuring it made sense to take the 8k up a bit higher than the other two but as stated it will smooth out with use so eh. But a bit of experimentation will be a fun way to see what I like :D
It's really not necessary to go to higher grits for lapping. A 325 grit DMT8C or an Atoma 400 both work just fine for the lapping of any grit of synthetic hone. The use of a more fine lapping plate will not alter or improve the honing surface of the higher grit hone.
If you are getting the DMT8C, it will work just fine as long as you hone a piece of steel or a screwdriver shaft on it to either wear down or knock off any aberrantly high diamonds. If you do not do this, you will get scratches in the hone from the higher diamonds.
Ordered the D8C from DMT last night should be here about the same time as my stones, thanks for all the suggestions and help Have a great day :D
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Stones arrived, onky 5k and 8k. Was supposed to get 1k as well so have to check into that. Also got dmt. Ran a knife on it a bit to break it in and now to lap stones. Pretty pumped.
Congrats on the new stones. I honestly lapped all my hones (coticule, waterstones, etc) on the same xx DMT plate for the longest time. Ended up selling it regrettably.... :( lapping with the DMT 325 in my opinion sucks compared to a coarser lapping plate and I never noticed a difference in the edges.
Thanks I'm playing with these right now. So far just learning.
Ok well after a bit of play time, these stones so far are way different feel than my Norton's. The 5k & 8k feel more gritty. The 5k cuts well and quick and the 8k produces a polish but not like my norton.
A few strokes on my 12k polished it right up. Still some learning to do for sure. Way different honing a full size hones but nice.
Just curious. Why did you choose to lap the labeled side?
Because I didn't know any better and I didn't really think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
There's no harm done. The two sides should be the same. I just prefer to leave the labels to help me know what I've got. Then again, I use a Sharpie to mark the ends and sides so it really doesn't matter.
Yea I mark the end of the hone. I just was very excited and didn't even consider keeping it. Plus my Japanese is non existent ;)
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1K arrived today its lapped flat and ready to work. After I get a few sessions in ill give my amateur insight incase anyone would like to know about these.
Should I warn you to use light pressure with these ? Next to a DMT these are a close second in aggressiveness.
I have discovered that with the 5k & 8k I have light pressure. I was wondering why I wasn't getting the polish on the 8k as I should. Too much pressure :) thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I'd like to know how they stack up to your Nortons. I was particularly curious about the 12K. I was considering one to expand my synthetic line up, but I can't seem to make up my mind which direction I want to take with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ejmolitor37
I have the Shapton Kuromaku 1K and the 12K. Inbetween these i still use my Naniwa combination stones 800/5000 and 2000/8000. I enjoy both stones very much, because i prefer hard bound stones, i don't like the feel of the Naniwa resin bound stones that much. And i think, with the right touch you can achive a good egde.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
I can't compare the Shapton Kuromaku to any known other brand 12K stone, the only other choice in artificial stones in that grid area is a DMD resin bound Diamond stone in 12K. The Shapton 12K is hard bound and stays true a long time, so far i reduced my trueing on diamond plates (400 grid cheap chinese) to once in ten razors. In between that i clean with water or a nailbrush and water and if it is more stained i use a Naniwa nagura ("the brown turd"). I am still testing an artificial 15K Metalmaster nagura, and so far i'm very happy with that combination, because a slight slurry makes the edge much more comfortable. To finish i clean up the stone and do eight to twelve strokes with clean water, that leads to the best sharpness without reducing the comfort. If you hone on water only and without nagura, it can produce a irritating harsh sharpness, but you can play around with your method to reduce that.
From what i read, the Norton 4K/8K may be comparable in hardness and feel, so to go from a Norton 8K to the Shapton 12K should be a decision that doesn't force you to adapt to a total different honing experience. The learning curve should be less then ten knives if you were able to produce good shaveable edges with the Norton 8K (my guess).
Marshal, so far I like my kuromaku hones. My use of Norton's is 1/4 Norton's which served their purpose and will still in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
I have kuromaku 1k,5k, and 8k. My 12k is naniwa super stone so it is not the same brand.
My comparison is not going to be 100% fair I suppose because its not full size stone comparison but...
The little bit I have used these stone so far has been positive. Last night I played with the 1k, IMO it was a fast cutter and clean. Made nice stria and was easy to use. I feel it cut faster than my norton 1k.
The 5k at first I felt was slower than my 4K norton but after using it and easing up on pressure I enjoy the 5k just as much. It seems like it may take a bit longer than the 4k but it does work well. Also I feel the 5k is a bit harder than the norton 4k.
8k kuromaku, after realizing my pressure was too much I got a great polish from this stone. When using too much pressure it seemed to want to scratch more so than polish but now that I have that sorted out I enjoy this new 8k.
Since getting my naniwa 12k I have nothing but positive things to say. Great polish and fairly quick. I took all my norton 8k edges to the naniwa 12k when it arrived and in 10 to 15 strokes maybe 20 I didn't count really it further polished the edge and to me it is a comfortable shave right off it.
Marshal I so far like my Sharpton kuromaku. Well worth the cost savings, great feed back from each stone while using it. You can feel it when things are right and ready to move up. Sorry I can't really answer your question about 12k shapton Marshal but I hope this helps. As I use them more I will give more information about my thoughts.
Hrm...no idea how I got the idea that you were getting a Kuromaku 12K as well. Oh well, Hein31 answered my questions in regard to that stone. Kind of doesn't surprise me, since Shapton in general are said to create a harsh edge compared to Naniwa etc. I suspect as Onimaru said earlier that pressure plays a lot into that. Less is more.
If you get a chance can you tell me what the shave is like off the Kuro 8K? That would give me an idea what to expect off the 12K I think.
Not that it's too pivotal. I don't necessarily want a 12K finisher as much as I do a synthetic beyond 8K to use as a base of comparison. And I've got plenty of naturals that could be used to soften up the edge if it were too harsh to just let stropping take care of it.
Your comparison to the 4k is also helpful. I'm not surprised the jump to 5k seems to take a while. 1k to 5k is quite a jump, and I suspect the Kuromaku stones were designed to have the 2k or something else worked in between 1 and 5. Which is a bit different from the Norton hones, which were designed to allow that 1k to 4k jump.
I will absolutely give you a shave off the 8k and let you know, I will see about giving that a go round tonight. Yes the 1 to 5 is a big jump and I am not honing for $ so I don't mind the quiet time and learning all along. You are correct that the Norton 1 to 4k jump is much easier a transition.
I will post shave results later tonight on the 8K shave for you Marshal, I have a feeling it will be just as my nortons were but we shall see. :D
The 1k to 5k is a big jump because the 1k acts more like a coarser stone than 1k. There is a 1.5k as well as the 2k. And for stuff that almost needs a belt sander the 320grit is a gem. If using my HNK's I don't consider the bevel set till I reach 2k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
It's a versatile system as you can pick 1k, 1.5k or 2k as your starting point depending on edge state.
The HNK's are a system that works best with small jumps except at the 5k. There the 12k is an easy jump making the 8k redundant.
Well, the only reason I'm curious about the shave off the 8K is that's generally seen as the minimum for a good comfortable shave. I just hope he doesn't touch off the razor burn too bad experimenting for my sake. :rofl2:
I agree 12 is likely to be better than 8. And the Chrome Ox is another good point. I've got a bit of that lying about somewhere too. Many options to make it work for me rather than against me.
Just completed the shave Marshal.
So my steps, killed the edge on the 1k from there reset the bevel.
Once bevel was set killed edge again.
Bevel set again, this took about 10 minutes.
5k until had a nice even stria and 1k stria was removed. I didn't pay attention to the clock on this but it took a bit of time.
Went to 8k until I had a nice polish and edge then linen and leather. I don't count strop strokes.
Shave was just as I remember 8k shaves to be which is just fine. No razor burn and close and comfortable as I can get. I would honestly report there being little to no difference in these kuromaku hones and norton as far as an 8k edge goes for comfort and end result. I hope this helps any questions please ask and ill do my best to help.
Pardon my laziness for not bothering to research it myself, but can anyone explain the difference between the Shapton Kuromaku and the Pro?
My interpretation has always been that the kuromaku stones were the exact same as the pro. The only difference being where they were being sold. Pro stones sent to the US and Europe and kuromaku for sale only in Japan. I believe I read that in a mainaman post, but could be proven wrong I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Yup, same behaviour, slightly different composition for export market. Japan, being quite humid.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
The HNK's tolerate being damp very well but can craze a bit in overly dry environments much like the Choceras do.
Bingo my reading exactly fellas.
Thank ya kindly!Quote:
Originally Posted by ejmolitor37
:bow :beer1:
Any time you need an amateur I'm here for y'all ;)