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Hoping for some more advice.
This is quite large 8 7/8" long x 2 3/4" wide x 7/8" high
Weight: 2.305lbs (converted from 1046g)
Top face is as smooth as glass, base is rough, natural state.
Box has been custom made as the stone only fits in one way.
I have added water in one photo.
Thanks momma
a turkey/cretan oilstone?
I had to Google that :) I have no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by brightred
I also have no idea what I can do to help with an ID, I know it is very hard just going by photos.
the glassy surface, slight translucency, and the many cracks seem to indicate that this stone might in fact be a turkey oilstone. some are fine enough to be used as finishers, others are not (but then quite fast). i use the coarser ones to sharpen small gravers (watchmaking tools).
regards,
hans
Thank you Hans
Hard to tell, but somehow judging by the chipping, it doesn't seem like it's a cretan. On one hand its coloration and glassy surface may indicate a type of novaculite, but on the other hand it looks too pure and consistent to be one, both on top and bottom. I'm sure others will chime in shortly. Curious about that one myself!
Momma
One way to help the rock hounds is to work up a slurry on the stone. The color and density gives clues on the type of stone. Look for other hone ID threads to see how it is done
Thanks Srdjan, I will try to get take some better photos tomorrow
rolodave thanks I will do a search and have a go at it.
I'd probably be able to find something on Youtube too
I don't think it's a Cretan. Looks more like a thuringian slate, perhaps a swedenstein. Can you dampen the entire surface and make a new picture? Also make a little slurry.
It doesn't look as the stone has been used with oil. That's also a sign. That's my best guess from the pictures [emoji4]
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Hi Kristian in my opening post I was going to comment that the underside had a slate like appearance.
It's 12:40am here so I will get some better photos later today and will also search about making a slurry.
Thanks momma
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6f893f1d14.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea58a95271.jpg
My swedenstein back dry and front lapped and dampened with water.
Looks pretty close I think.
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It looks like a thuringian to me.
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Mine or the topic-one? Mine is a Sweedenstein, wich is also a thuringian.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1234
Regards
Kristian
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Topic stone. I would really like to see some slurry on that particular stone to be shure though. I'm currently basing my judgment on the way the sides look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian
But that sweedensteien is beautiful!!!
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Okay, I don't think I went very good with the slurry :(
I didn't want to do the wrong thing (which I probably did :( )
Pic 2 Full sunlight hone with water It was very hot here today and the water was evaporating very quickly.
Pic 1 Maybe a bit of slurry taken in shade
Pic 3 The big one in the wooden box is the one that we have been discussing here. Went and foraged in my Dad's shed for a slurry stone and found all these in box at the back of a cupboard. Dad died 2 years ago, these could have come from his fathers shed. Dad had lots of stuff that he never bought, he may have bought the little white HF-43 Hard Arkansas and the triangle one sitting on top.
Tell me if I did the wrong thing: to make the slurry I had a piece of glass with 2000 grit wet & dry. Wet the paper thoroughly and worked the hone around. It took a bit to get this small result.
Well from the slurry I say it's a thuringian hone. It's a very fine sharpening stone. It's used to finish honing a razor.
Most people use these hones after a honing progression on synthetic stones finishing on a 8000K grit stone. The thuri is used after that. About 30 fine laps with only water. It leaves a razor fantastic sharp.
You can't grit rate a natural stone. But most people, myself included, believe it finish +12.000K.
The most known thüringian hones, are the one labeled Escher. There are roughly 160 layers of thuries and 120 layers are suitably for razor hones.
It comes in many colors but frankly, there isn't much difference. I have about 10-15 myself.
You'll need to lap the hone flat, to use it properly.
Start with a completely flat surface, like a plate of Glas. Then use water/sand paper starting at grit 100, then 150, 400 and finish on grit 1000. Then you are good to go. All scratches must be removed.
Make sure to round the edge of the hone, or you will scratch the razor.
It is possible honing a razor on just this hone, without a synthetic progression. gssixgun has made a fine YouTube video on that. Search one stone honing with thuringian.
Congratulation with the hone!
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Thank you Kristian, you have been a great help :)
would mine be considered on the large size for a hone?
8 7/8" long x 2 3/4" wide x 7/8" high
Weight: 2.305lbs (converted from 1046g)
You wouldn't want to drop this one on your foot :)
Yes. It's a very fine and large hone. Seldom seem in that size, thou I have a few that's larger. Yours is perfect for razors, since it has the same size as most blades, making it perfect for new honers.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f660f9a2fd.jpg
Here's some of mine larger ones. From left, an labeled Escher, my brick-hone an tile-hone. Both names I made up to describe them.
There are black thuringians. Very fine finishers!
I can't imagine why anyone needed hones that big, but I found them and saved them. They are great for razors. I gave about 10$ each. A true find.
Regards Kristian.
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Yep it's a thuringian
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Chances are, it's not a Thuringian. All we know is, it's dark, and a slate. Also, it has some different coloration that is not characteristic of a Thuringian, that's a fact.
Earth has plenty of slates to offer, a lot of these quarries have some homogeneous material that can be used as a hone.
Schwedenstein (it just might be one but interesting patterns in slate is nothing unique) stones aren't Thuringians, it's different area and a different quarry, same case with the mottled type of stones that are rarer than true Thuringians, but aren't the original Thuringians either, not that they are inferior in any way.
Schwedenstein stones have good cutting power, and Thuringians don't, that's a big difference. The ones I tested were finer than the classic Thuringians too, but that's not a fact as there are softer ones that are coarser and not of finishing grade, I hope to get one of these next year.
Also, any slate can have good cutting speed with or without slurry, or it can be slow. It's the nature of the material, not an indicator. Slurry color isn't an indicator either.
I seriously doubt it's a Thuringian unless proven otherwise. All we know is, it's a fine, probably, dark slate. The market is full of sellers with stones marketed as Thuringians, and in most cases they aren't. Someone assuming that a stone is a Thuringian doesn't make the stone a Thuringian. And proving that one is, that's a real challenge.
Thanks Vasilis, your response makes a lot of sense.
I knew it would be hard to identify just by colour and as a novice I am not really much help.
Regards Denise
I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing.
The picture of the underside of the rock. I see small flakes. And a rough finish.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...e-sv400050.jpg
This image is showing me a very smooth finish. It also has some inclusions that look very familiar to me.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...e-sv400051.jpg
And finally your man says he struggled to raise this amount of slurry on 2K wet and dry. That tells me it's as hard as Satans toenails.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...e-sv400164.jpg
I would guess it's a Novaculite. One of the odd Vintage ones that crop up from time to time. I have one that was equally hard to identify.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3721/1...04c0d87b_z.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7366/1...0e43f5af_z.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7393/1...b9fd84ee_z.jpg
Iceni, thanks for your input.
Ihave had this for quite a few years. I bought this hone at a Garage Sale along with the hone I asked about last week.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...id-please.html
Oh and Iceni, your comment: "And finally your man says he struggled" ..... "And finally your WOman says She struggled" :)
Thanks momma aka Denise
Dives for cover for fear of flying rocks!
Sorry about that!
The other stone does indeed look like a Noviculite as well. There are no hard and fast rules for what one should look like, And they come in coarseness grades as well! There are loads of colour variations some look layered and banded. Others have spots or are all one nice colour! Some are translucent, other totally black or grey.
They work out the grade by measuring the density of the stone. The most dense stones are the finishing grades. The least dense have more airspace and pores and cut more aggressively and faster.
You can google specific gravity equations if you are wanting to go that route. Then compare it to the gravity formula used by Dans whetstone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_gravity
https://www.danswhetstone.com/inform...ne-grades-101/
Needless to say, I meant no offense. If the stone is a fine one you can shave comfortably with, that's all you need, the name is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by momma
Also, the back side with the natural appearance look different than a way a Thuringian or Schwedenstein is split but characteristic of a slate, but enough about that.
Something else I observed, but I'm not sure if it applies only for some quarries or it's a general rule of thumb; if there are no inclusions and sparkly particles on a uniform, homogeneous stone, the darker its color, the finer the stone and you stone is dark indeed.
Attachment 257176
This was my light colored Schwedenstein, I sold it and it's one of the two stones I regret selling, 22.5x5.5+x3cm piece and really really fine, a few western ones could beat that edge,
Attachment 257177
Attachment 257178
Here is the Thuringian I have, note the way the back side looks, all Thuringians with one or more surfaces that are left with the natural appearance have some strange lines, the weren't split easily, it's more like you are trying to break a piece without veins and what you get is this natural appearance. That yellowish wide line is just natural color on the surface and can be lapped off with sandpaper and a tiny effort.
I'll send you a PM with a link to a friend's, Peter's, collection, there are Thuringians and Schwedenstein and you can see their characteristics
Iceni, No flying rocks shall be thrown at you :)
Hmmm the Gravity Equations, now how hard could that be :D
What I need is a hone expert that lives in Yarrawonga VIC Australia -
Once again, thank you for taking the time & trouble to help me
and thank you too Vasilis. You have put in a lot of effort to explain things and it is appreciated :)
Could well be a Schwedenstein, there are nearly all different colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by momma
I have sold one of these blue/grey ones a while ago. You can see some photos here:
Thuringian Hone - mottled blue - "Schwedenstein"
Even though your stone is not as accentuated concerning the yellow/orange parts I have to say these colors are sometimes more, sometimes less visible.
So at the end -as always- it is only guessing from the photos, but there is at least a decent possibility that this is a Schwedenstein.
hatzicho, that is a beautiful specimen <3
My photos aren't great, and I realise that an accurate ID is well nigh impossible but it is enjoyable for me to read and re-read the responses and learn from the suggestions.
I do have a few more ...... :)
Thank you Denise
PS I shall enjoy looking at your site tomorrow (actually that would be today as it is 12:26am here)
I'm thinking it's probably not novaculite. The chips don't look like a broken piece of novaculite, and that pattern on the backside almost looks like the stone was split off with a chisel. This thread has a pretty good example of what broken/chipped novaculite looks like:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...khounding.html
They tend to flake smooth like flint, and do have a pretty wide color spectrum including bands. I've yet to see one that brown-ish green color though. This stone is somewhat odd, in some photos it looks dead-on novaculite, and others I'm thinking, "no wait, that can't be...can it?"
:hmmm: :shrug:
Not always, It depends on how it was chipped and if the stone had any flaws. Not all cherts are knappable or make those nice flake fractures. Inclusions also can change how well the rock flakes. It's why certain sites are well regarded for knaping flint, and flintlock strikers, but the vast majority isn't any good at all.Quote:
They tend to flake smooth like flint
Those fractures are only every produced by mechanical action as well. Hitting it, dropping it ect. Fire or freezing damage will not produce them.
The rock I have has a small chip that isn't flaked at all, that runs with a natural crack.
Those larger ones could have also been where the natural skin of the rock was, Have a look at my Thornwick images again and look at the skin layer and how it moves about.
This thread on a knapping forum explains it pretty well.
http://www.arrowheadology.com/forums...cked-rock.html
I did see the natural skin, I assumed that was the weathered face. Wind & water do different things than dropping/striking. But usually aren't smooth and even like the backside of that hone seems to be in the photos. I would expect it to undulate, like your Thornwick stone.
Could be I'm just used to the Novaculite from the Oauchita Mountains. Like you say, different quarry, different characteristics.
A bit off topic; Unlike what I used to think of, novaculite isn't just translucent/non porous Arkansas.
It has many forms, the way it flakes can be different, and these flakes themselves can be porous as well, not glass/quartz solid. We have the non porous glass type of stone like the high density Arkansas, the porous Arkansas than too have their own patterns whether flakes or as bigger pieces, the Charnley forest novaculite (Iceni is familiar with the stone as well as the place, there was a very nice thread about the stone a few years ago by him) which is again different, the Llyn Idwal that is unique as well, and the most strange of all, for me at least, the Cretan stone that is basically fused diatomaceous earth but real novaculite too. And strangely, but not really, there was a quarry again in Germany that a stone with a lot of similarities to the Arkansas fine stones was extracted, that had its own unique pattern. And I'm sure there are plenty of other places where novaculite is already used, as a hone or for some other reason, it's an interesting mineral by its nature.
When I first started researching into hones, I thought that Novaculite was an unique mineral from US, but it turns out, it's not all that rare.
As for solid pieces of stone that might look like good, uniform material for honing, there are more than one type of quartz particles, the monocrystalline, cryptocrystalline and possibly other something-crystalline, (I might be wrong on the previous names of crystalline forms, there are too many types and for many types of minerals); some types in SiO2 minerals are famous for being unsuitable for hones as the particles have unwanted properties and even though they appear hone material, they damage the edge. Transparent quartz is one example.
For the stone of the thread, some lapping of the side can prove if it's just dirt, glue, or some interesting pattern of the stone, but if it doesn't interfere with honing, there is no need to be lapped.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...842c26d49a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c48030d0e0.jpg
Well to be fair it does come down to the pictures. They are not showing a clear give away.
Here's two pictures of some hones I found. First one not so easy to see, and the other shows the stones cleaned, lapped og damped.
One proved to be a swedenstein, but I also got a labeled Escher, a Coticule and a Butterscoth Arkansas hone.
The swedenstein has so far proved to be the best finisher, by the way.
Point is, lap and clean the hone. Use water sandpaper and take pictures again when you are finished.
We can never name the vain or quarry from with the stone came out, but there's a great difference in a novaculite and a slate hone.
I still believe yours is the last...
Regards
Kristian
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