Interesting reply from Norton

In the thread that recently rehashed if the Norton 8K is really 8K it sparked a side discussion about whether or not they'd ever put out a water hone finer than 8k. Well, I took the opportunity to fire an email off to them, fully expecting it to get lost somewhere in the mix. To my surprise they did respond! First the message I sent to them:

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I've been using Norton water stones for a lot of my sharpening

needs, and had a question. I've got the single grit hones up to

8K, but for some of my needs (shaving with a straight razor)

finer grit is maybe not necessary but typically preferred. Since

I don't want to step out of the Norton line for my water hones, I

was wondering if there was any chance you guys were working on

any water stones in a finer grit? Maybe a 12,000 or 16,000 grit

stone?



I'd also like to say that while I really enjoy your 4,000 grit

and 8,000 grit stones, the 1,000 grit seems to drink up a LOT of

water. So does the 220, and it also turns to mud when used.

Random thought, but it would really tighten the line up if those

2 'issues' were addressed. It would be really nice to be able to

keep water on top of those 2 stones without having to spray them

down every 30-45 seconds.

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I took a moment to address the biggest complaint I see (and have myself) with regard to the 1K and it's lower grit counterpart.

What they said:

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Thanks for contacting us regarding our waterstone product line. It’s always good to get feedback about how our products work and what new products our customers would like to see. At the moment we don’t have any stones finer than the 8000 grit product you are already using. We are considering developing something finer and will keep you posted once we have something to offer.


I think on reason the 220 grit and 1000 grit st6ones absorb water more quickly has to do with the larger grit size and slightly more open structure. However, your concern is noted and will be taken into account as we continue to refine our product offering.



Thanks again.

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So...now might be a good time to fire off emails and show a bit of interest. If they're considering making a finer grit water stone, the make or break on that will be if they can sell them.

And it wouldn't hurt to mention what they could do to tighten up the lower end of their line, if you're interested in that as well.

Edit: Can a mod be so kind as to fix the title for me? The fact that it says replay instead of reply is going to forever drive me nuts!

Good work ! ........... :tu

I see what's going on here,,,:hmmm: you just want to get to the front of the Buy List when manufacturing of this stone happens. Maybe even a stone tester for Norton. :shrug:

I guess I had better get my email in tonight. :D

I would most definitely buy a 12k or 16k stone by Norton, or both. I love my 4/8 stone.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

I see what's going on here,,,:hmmm: you just want to get to the front of the Buy List when manufacturing of this stone happens. Maybe even a stone tester for Norton. :shrug:

I guess I had better get my email in tonight. :D

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I mean...if they need a stone tester I could be tempted to sign up pretty easily.

But I'd settle for being toward the front of the buy list should they actually develope and produce a stone.

I'm with Harrywally. Love the 4/8, and would definitely find the money for a 12 or 16 if they put it out.

Norton makes some fine products.

Their 3X sandpaper is all I use. As well as their aluminum oxide wheels on my bench grinder. I love their products.

Sent from my LG-K121 using Tapatalk

Just use a plastic squirt bottle, instead of a spray, and a plastic tray to catch any runoff.

I honed on a Norton 1k for many years and an 8k, till about a year ago.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Just use a plastic squirt bottle, instead of a spray, and a plastic tray to catch any runoff.

I honed on a Norton 1k for many years and an 8k, till about a year ago.

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That's how I do it. But when setting the bevel on a real PITA razor you have to admit, it'd be nice if water stayed atop the Norton 1K like it does Naniwa hones. I wanted to switch from my Naniwa 800 to my Norton 1K to set the bevel on my wedge, which I suspect is faster (or at least put the 220 to work and speed it up). But I also didn't want to be refilling the spray bottle every 10 minutes and filling my drip pan with water. If no one ever mentions that to them, how are they gonna know there's room for improvement?

And the 220 needs improvement. I usually won't even use that on pocket knives. The only reason I considered it for the wedge was the amount of steel that needed to be whittled away to get passed the pitting at the edge and find useful steel.

Norton does make and have made quality hones for many years. I have my grandfathers Norton 'Queer Creek' hone he used to spit on when honing his razors. Not sure when it was made, maybe in the 1940's, because they changed the name from 'Queer Creek' to 'Clear Creek' around 1946 or 1947.

The hone is in very good condition, I keep it in a wooden box for protection. Have not honed a razor on it in years, not sure what grit it is but may give it another shot to see where it fits in the progression mainly to get an idea what grit it is.

Nice suggestion, I hope Norton makes it happen!

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Originally Posted by Marshal

I'm with Harrywally. Love the 4/8, and would definitely find the money for a 12 or 16 if they put it out.

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I would be too, but I'd wait for some folks to report on them before I pulled the trigger. Anyway, I'll believe Norton when I see the stone :hmmm:

Marshall, if you were to reply to them would you ask them what the binder is on the two stones ? IIRC the 8k is a natural of some sort. I know, from their instructions that come with the single grit, that the 4k needs soaked, but NOT the 8k.

I'm curious about binder because ALL the other synthetics I've tried move and need to be lapped back to flat. Not the Nortons. Only when they began to wear do I need to lap them.

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Originally Posted by DoughBoy68

Norton does make and have made quality hones for many years. I have my grandfathers Norton 'Queer Creek' hone he used to spit on when honing his razors. Not sure when it was made, maybe in the 1940's, because they changed the name from 'Queer Creek' to 'Clear Creek' around 1946 or 1947.

The hone is in very good condition, I keep it in a wooden box for protection. Have not honed a razor on it in years, not sure what grit it is but may give it another shot to see where it fits in the progression mainly to get an idea what grit it is.

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Got one of those stones from Eric (can't recall his screen name) who used to be around. Works great on my pocket knives.

Attachment 257362

I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on a higher grit offering, for the simple fact that even the coarsest 12K hone from a reputable manufacturer can be used for our purposes. So I'd be willing to wager whatever Norton offered would be useful for something, even if it needed a little Chrome Ox or a couple passes on a natural to take the 'bite' out of the edge. But judging by their 8K, I think that would be a non-issue. No way to know unless they move forward with it and put something on the market though.

I haven't replied to them yet, but I have been kicking around the idea of pointing them here with a link to the thread. That way they could see at least a bit of interest/excitement about the potential of a finer than 8K offering from them. If I do I'll definitely inquire about the binders.

Agreed that one of the better points about the Norton line is how comparatively little lapping is necessitated. My Norton 1K has been used to set countless bevels and work the chips from about every straight I own. Last time I lapped it, the stone was more or less still flat. It just needed swarf cleared from the pores. It didn't even feel like it slowed down, I just thought it looked trashy with the swarf starting to rust & brown the hone. Same could be said for my 4k and 8K hones. I didn't lap them to flatten them, I lapped them to clean them. They were still flat, just turning a bit darker black than I cared for.

I also like the fact that even though the 8K may not need soaking, throwing it in the same bath with the 1K & 4K doesn't hurt the stone in the least. No worries about the stones soaking too long and falling apart. The minimalist aspect is kind of nice too. 1 - 4 - 8 and that's it. No need to ponder if it's better to have 1/2/5/12, 1/3/8/12, 1/5/8/12, 1/3/5/8/12, 1/2/3/5/8/10/12, or any other combination of the stones that can be contrived. Adding a 12K or 16K JIS type stone would put them in league with Naniwa and Shapton, without the system becoming cumbersome. Especially if it keeps the qualities we like about the 4K and 8K.

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Originally Posted by Marshal

I haven't replied to them yet, but I have been kicking around the idea of pointing them here with a link to the thread. That way they could see at least a bit of interest/excitement about the potential of a finer than 8K offering from them. If I do I'll definitely inquire about the binders.

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Thanks Marshall, If and when you do reply to them I'd mention the other players, Shapton pro and glass, Naniwa super and chosera, Suehiro .......... any others that might be taking market share at that 10-12k level.

If they made their 12k with the same binder that they make their 4/8 with I'd go for it too I guess.

BTW, my single grit 4k stays in a rubbermaid sealed container of water. Has for years and never a problem, and I also hit them with the diamond plate to get rid of swarf/staining. Great stones really, just don't have the following they once did.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I would be too, but I'd wait for some folks to report on them before I pulled the trigger. Anyway, I'll believe Norton when I see the stone :hmmm:

Marshall, if you were to reply to them would you ask them what the binder is on the two stones ? IIRC the 8k is a natural of some sort. I know, from their instructions that come with the single grit, that the 4k needs soaked, but NOT the 8k.

I'm curious about binder because ALL the other synthetics I've tried move and need to be lapped back to flat. Not the Nortons. Only when they began to wear do I need to lap them.



Got one of those stones from Eric (can't recall his screen name) who used to be around. Works great on my pocket knives.

Attachment 257362

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Mine had a sticker on the side but it came off but I wrote down the info; Norton Abrasives, Behr-Manning, Troy, NY (Division of Norton Co.), Original Pike Quality with picture of a fish, Queer Creek Oilstone.

I like my Nortons and agree with much of what has been posted here.

I am having another of my random thoughts.

Would their binder that we like be able to hold the smaller particles of a 12K?:shrug:

Yeah, and I think the reason for that is Naniwa, Shapton, etc. going beyond 8K. Naniwa goes to 12K. Shapton goes to 30 in the Glass line and 12K in the Kuromaku line. All 3 lines arguably have more user friendly 1K hones. If someone bought a Naniwa Traditional/Specialty/Professional 1K, and a 12K Specialty Stone, It's almost inevitable the purchaser would at least get a 3K & 8K Specialty to fill in the middle grits. Same could be said if someone went with a Shapton Glass 1K & 16K/30K, or even a Shapton Kuromaku 1K & 12K. Someone that started with a Norton 1/4/8 and branched out at the top & bottom is almost bound to fill in the middle with the new line rather than at least sticking with the 4/8 - even though there's nothing wrong with them. And that's assuming they didn't see the line end at 8K and decide right then and there to go with Naniwa or Shapton. Or even King with the Ice Bear 10K.

I think about everyone's had the Norton 4k & 8k. And I haven't seen much negativity around them (save for maybe the Made in Mexico 4Ks). They're just a bit weak on the bottom end, and non-existent passed 8K.