Hone recommendations.

Hi fellas.

I'm looking to buy some hones. Currently I have a Naniwa 12k finishing stone which I purchased thinking this would be enough to re touch my straight however, I now know that it is too far gone for the naniwa to restore it so I was looking to buy either 4000 & 8000 grit stones or a 4K/8K combination stone. I have seen the norton combo stone which would be great however at the moment I can't justify the price. Could you guys possibly advise an alternative brand that makes a combo stone or recommend individual stones which are good and reliable but without the cost of the norton? Thanks in advance guys.

The Norton combo stone is less than $95 US here in the US, so that's going to be hard to beat for value.

Film will be the cheapest option and should work for you though you might want to use sandpaper on glass for bevel work on rough razors. $20 US should get you going.

You could also maybe acquire a small coticule, especially if you could find one at an antique store, boot sale, brocante, etc. That would take you from bevel set to ready to finish, and maybe do it all if you luck into the right one.

There's also coarser slates like the Dragon's Tongue that are UK produced and may work for you though I have never used one.

You should also check out the Shapton kuromaku which is the non-US version of the Shapton Pros. They're proven performers on razors and cheaper than our version.

I would caution you not to buy cheap off-brand Chinese stones from eBay or Amazon, those stones have a rather checkered performance record with razors. They tend to be too soft and the grit not uniform enough and possibly exaggerated in their grit ratings. Many times we have seen people who think they cannot afford a decent stone spend twice that on cheap hones that don't work, only to end up with a Norton, Shapton, or Naniwa in the end

Cheers, Steve

If you must and really cannot get the Norton stone, King makes a 1k/6k stone that will work. I think they are less than 50. The auction site has them at $40 or less. Some people are using it with slurry to enhance performance. Do not just buy a coticule off the shelf unless it is known to put a shaving edge on a razor. There are a lot of junker coticules out right now. New and used.

Dragon's Tongue is a good stone in my experience.
Do a search here for "Dragon's Tongue"

Water of Aire and Tam o Shanter and similar stones are good also
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...Scottish_Hones
Just my experiences over a few years. I am a bit of a hone junky!
~Richard
Where they fit in progression:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...o-shanter.html

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Originally Posted by TurbineBlade

Hi fellas.

I'm looking to buy some hones. Currently I have a Naniwa 12k finishing stone which I purchased thinking this would be enough to re touch my straight however, I now know that it is too far gone for the naniwa to restore it so I was looking to buy either 4000 & 8000 grit stones or a 4K/8K combination stone. I have seen the norton combo stone which would be great however at the moment I can't justify the price. Could you guys possibly advise an alternative brand that makes a combo stone or recommend individual stones which are good and reliable but without the cost of the norton? Thanks in advance guys.

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I've checked at Amazon UK and while they do carry the mentioned KING 1/6K they also carry an 8K. I've used KING stones and still do. They do work and while they are thirsty and need lots of water they should be of some help to you. With that said, I've never used a KING that was mounted and I've allowed them to soak either overnight or just left them in a water bath in between uses.

To jump from 1K to 6K 'can' be done, however it's not ideal.

If you could afford either just a 6K or the 8K and use slurry you can make them do a lot of work so you wouldn't need the 3-4K and unless you are going to be needing to cut new bevels you shouldn't need a 1K.

I hope this has been of some help.

Hi guys.

Thanks for the quick responses thus far. I do agree with the consensus on the Chinese amazon / eBay stones and think they are too risky and the chances are, a waste of money. I'll take a look at the King stones but I'm thinking pretty much the safest bet would be just to bite the bullet and get the norton combo stone, that way I know what I am getting and that when it doesn't work, it's completely my fault, lol.

What makes you think that your edge is too far gone to be fixed with the 12k? Were you ever able to shave with that edge? Unless you damaged your razor, I cannot imagine why you cannot bring it back with the 12k.

I had guessed it was too far gone as when I put the razor on the hone for 8 - 12 passes it doesn't seem to get shave ready sharp, this of course may be down to my technique, however I assumed from this that the stone I have is too fine a grit and not suitable for restoring the edge of my straight. The razor is a thiers issard and the stone is a naniwa 12k.

Yeah, when starting out a good set of synthetics is the absolute best bet.

Can you get where you want to go with a C12k, Dragon's Tongue, or other cheap natural? Sure. I've done it. But your results are going to be spotty until you've figured out not only how to hone a razor, but how to do so on your natural stone. Better to learn the former first, then figure out the latter IMHO.

And cheap synthetics tend to be more miss than hit. Don't be swayed by the Weiwei's of the world, unless there really is no other option.

Your best options for a simple system with repeatable results will be a Norton 4/8, Naniwa 3/8, or a King 1/6. You could also throw Shaptons in the mix I guess, but I'm not aware of them making a combination stone, so that kind of drives the entry cost higher still.

A hone is more than a number. It is a tool and what it can do is dependant upon the skill of its user. A Naniwa SuperStone/Specialty 12k can do anything from bevel setting to finishing in the right hands.

IF your razor's edge is more degraded, you might need to use either more strokes or more pressure, though the latter would be followed by lighter strokes.

My point is that if you only are looking to maintain previously sharpened razors, then the 12k should remain all that you should need.

I believe that after multiple stroppings to keep a razor keen, the edge becomes concave and requires a reset to 1k eventually. However, Like Utopian said, sometimes you can get away with a 12k refresh, if not then 8k or 4k then onto the reset.

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Originally Posted by TurbineBlade

I had guessed it was too far gone as when I put the razor on the hone for 8 - 12 passes it doesn't seem to get shave ready sharp, this of course may be down to my technique, however I assumed from this that the stone I have is too fine a grit and not suitable for restoring the edge of my straight. The razor is a thiers issard and the stone is a naniwa 12k.

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Ahh! More information!

6-12 laps aren't a lot really, try just keeping on honing. Give it 20, shave, then 20 more, etc. The Naniwa is probably cutting better than you think it might be, modern high quality synths cut very well indeed.

About hones, your conclusion about buying a good hone is sound.

The cheapest hone is the one you buy only once.

Cheers, Steve

Logic dictates that if you have a 12k Naniwa then the next step down the ladder is the 8k Naniwa then 5k or 3k then finally the 1k

PS: The 12k naniwa in the right hands can set a bevel, yes it really can..

The same company in Japan that makes King hones also makes Sun Tiger hones. I have a 4k and an 8k Sun Tiger slip stone (so smaller hand held size). They are each about $25.

Another thought is was the razor honed with tape? If so then tape should be used to refresh. Naniwa 12k is a great stone and as already stated is capable of much more.

If you want a poor mans stone then the King 1000/6000 is a reasonable place to start.

The 1K side will set a bevel no problem.

The 6K side is very mid range. I personally think it's closer to a 4K stone.

The other stone I would seriously consider with this is a Naniwa Speciality 8K stone. It'll bridge the gap between the 6K king and the 12K.

https://uk.knivesandtools.com/en/pt/...one-sp-480.htm

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Japanese-wh.../dp/B001DT1X9O

You could try without the 8K stone it will take longer on the 12K to get a perfect polish.

I went with a similar route when I started to hone. The king is a decent enough stone, and it'll give you the option to buy better mid grit stones when you have the cash (3K, 8K). The 1K side never needs replacing, but when you do think about the 1K naniwa pro stone. It's not a lot more then the speciality but it's a really nice smooth stone that is regarded as been the benchmark bevel setter.

You also need to consider how much bevel setting you plan to do. If you are just going to buy a few Ebay vintage razors and that's it you will probably be rarely using a 1k after you set the bevels once.

Finishers are where it's at for many people. :)

You can try and buy cheap stones to get by. Best wait a while get a 1k Naniwa Superstone to set bevels, a 3k Naniwa SS, a 5k SS, an 8k SS to go with your 12 k. That 4 stone purchase will be fine not just in the short term, it will still be a fine progression that will be great in 5 years or longer. In the long run its way better to outlay what would be no more than $200ish for all four. You can still find Naniwa superstones on ebay on stands at great prices. Like most of us, the first stones we buy aren't in the line up long, most move to others, the Chosera, Shapton, etc. If my 1St stones were nani 1,3,5,8,12, the only thing I'd add would be the gok 20. That's 5 years down the track.

I think the Naniwa Traditional 1k would be a better choice over the SuperStone 1k.

I only mentioned the 1k superstone, bearing in mind the expense issue of the member starting this thread. You can pick up a 1k SS for $29 on '330mate'

And the Traditional 1k works better and costs $30.

I am a fan of the Naniwa 3/8 combo. the 3k will bring most bevels back in good working order and you get an 8k with it to step forward to your 12k. With those two stones there are very few razors you could not tackle. My rationale is that most razors don't need that much work to reset a bevel and that 3k can do it in a reasonable amount of time, barring ebay rust bucket razors that need all sorts of correction honing I think that stone will be both economical and very useful in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Dragon's Tongue is a good stone in my experience.
Do a search here for "Dragon's Tongue"

Water of Aire and Tam o Shanter and similar stones are good also
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...Scottish_Hones
Just my experiences over a few years. I am a bit of a hone junky!
~Richard
Where they fit in progression:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...o-shanter.html

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Hey, hey, I like Geezer's post here, given the localized context. The Ayrshire stone will bring things pretty close, followed by judicious stopping. Off a 1k/3k Suehiro combo, an Inigo Jones Dragon's Tongue will also bring things in range, perhaps followed by a Welsh purple for adding a finishing touch.

The Norton 4/8 is hard to beat, even at that price, if you are looking for a solid progression. It, combined with the 12k Super Stone is a lifetime purchase and will do all but the gravest restores.

The 12k, as said is capable of much more that you are allowing. It can easily revive an edge, set a bevel or remove a small chip.

Here is a post of a 12k doing just that. (12K Super Stone Chip Removal/Bevel Set)

Perhaps getting together with a local mentor, and learn to squeak out the performance from your 12k, might be your best course.

Maybe all you pros that no longer need anything but a NN 12k to hone your razors would be so kind and donate your coarse stones to the OP whose having a much harder time.:rofl2:
I'm serious.

Ok, the Naniwa 3/8k combo costs $122.00. The Naniwa SS 1,3,5,8k cost $144.00.. Only drawback is that the superstones are on stands. If you buy the traditional 1k, you will need a stone holder too.

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Originally Posted by Razorfaust

Maybe all you pros that no longer need anything but a NN 12k to hone your razors would be so kind and donate your coarse stones to the OP whose having a much harder time.:rofl2:
I'm serious.

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Pros know that low grit bevel setters are at least as important as finishers, so I doubt many hones will be headed his way. It was a charitable thought though!

Ok no takers. To the OP a charitable offer PM me with your Address and stuff and I will send you a Norton 220 /1k and 4/8 stone that I have out grown and rather hate so you can hate it or love it just the same only free.

AAchhh NOO Scotland this may be painful but you cant resist offer still stands.