New Chosera 1k and Coticule - A Couple of Questions from a Newbie

Hello all!

I've just purchased a Chosera 1k as a bevel setter to go along with my coticule. I am very new to honing and I have a couple of questions regarding this set up.

1. Does the Chosera need to be lapped upon receipt? If so, what is a good lapping option?

2. After setting the bevel on the 1k stone, can I go straight to the coticule with water only or is the dilucot method needed?

3. If I do need a slurry, what consistency am I looking for right when coming off the 1k to the coticule?

4. Should i be diluting the slurry my periodically adding water or will the razor breakdown the slurry on its own? Combination of both?

Thanks very much for the help! I definitely need it!

Number 1 rule for new hones is to lap them flat, check with a pencil grid.

The rest of your questions really depend on your coticule. I have one that I could do pure water after a 1k and get a decent edge pretty fast. Slower the stone, slurry may be necessary.

The consistency and the frequency of dilutions is also an oft discussed subject. Its pretty subjective and the stones qualities will govern it.

I would set the bevel and start simple with water only and try to get a good edge. Then add in things to complicate matters later

Going from 1k to Coticule, yes, you'll need to do slurry strokes. Gotta get those 1k striations out. An intermediate stone would be helpful before the Coticule, say a 4K or 5k. Less work for the Coticule to do. Even after an intermediate stone, slurry will be needed to progress before plain water. (Watch drmatt357 YouTube series, 4 videos).

The thickness or consistency should be like milk, as one showed me. As it thickens up add a drop or two of water. As the blade begins to grab (you'll know when you feel it), move on to plain water. With plain water, do as many strokes as are needed to achieve that grabbing sensation. Then you're likely done.

The Chosera and Coticule should be lapped and checked for flatness. The typical grid lap method using a diamond plate such as DMT 325 or Atoma 400 would be fine. The stones you have chosen lap fairly quickly so it wont be too much trouble to get them flat. If a diamond plate is not available you may use a coarse W/D sand paper on a known flat surface such as a granite tile from home depot or something similar. If you want to hone using the Coticule straight from the 1k bevel setter I would use a thick slurry to start and refine the edge using dilucot. Many folks use coticules in many ways, some take the edge up with synthetics to 5 or 8 k then just finish with no slurry or a start with a thin slurry and fnish on water only. Others do variations on this theme using more or less slurry depending on where your at with the edges refinement. Something that will take some experimentation on your part. If your goal is to do a one stone hone with a Coticule it will be a bit more work with slurry dilutions to get to the same finish. I think using a Coticule to do the whole progression from 1k may be more challenging for new honers as your stones quirks will have to be understood. It may be helpful to go backwards meaning try to finish the razor on water only after a synthetic progression to see if you can achieve a smooth shaving edge before learning the full dilucot system. I say this only because its easier to identify at what stage your honing may have gone wrong and whether or not you can actually get a fine enough finished edge with your particular stone. All Coticules are not created equal there is some variance in their performance so testing its finishing capabilities is important before jumping into the void so to speak.

Yes it can be done easily even on my Coti which is NOT good as anything but a finisher

One little hint You should be able to shave off the 1K BEFORE you go to the Coti yes really

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html


As to 1 stone honing take a look here for some hints and tricks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grJhZdo3wYI


Hone On

Not a lover of a coticule as the answer to getting shaving edges from a newcomer to honing. That being said you have lots of choices, and good luck with coticules. As far as lapping is concerned you can fudge along sandpaper of varying grits, on granite tiles. Simplify it and buy a lapping plate such as a DMT325 or my choice is the Atoma 400. ( I also have a Atoma #600 and #1200.) Note though that manufacturers dont recommend using the #1200 to lap fine hard stones, although many , members get along fine doing it. Also it, the lappig plate is just as good to raise a slurry on the coticule, and IMHO the stone performs better after it has had its surface disrupted, revealing fresh stone.

So as an update, I managed to get the edge to the point where it is cutting arm hair very well both with the growth and against the growth patterns. However, when I attempt a HHT I am having no success what so ever. I also am not having any success with the test on my other razors, which were professionally honed recently. How could I be going wrong? What is the proper way to do the test? I think I can shave with the razor but I would like to see some HHT results first.

Thanks so much!

I never was able to do the HHT with any success. It can vary with where the hair came from. Even testing arm hair is for "poops and chuckles" for me, the hair is nowhere as thick as my beard. The "Thumb Pad Test" is typically recommended for consistency and will be easier to calibrate with known edges.

It's funny you mention the source of the hair. My wife's hairbrush hairs yield no result at all, where my beard hairs from my beard brush actually work. I can't figure out why one does and one doesn't. But knowing it's not the end all end all test makes me feel better about a shave test.

All non-shaving tests are at best inconclusive. Only the shave test will give accurate performance results. So put the blade to the face and see how you did.

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Originally Posted by Matt1222

It's funny you mention the source of the hair. My wife's hairbrush hairs yield no result at all, where my beard hairs from my beard brush actually work. I can't figure out why one does and one doesn't. But knowing it's not the end all end all test makes me feel better about a shave test.

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The hair from your wife's brush is likely thinner/finer. Harder for the blade to catch. Beard hair by contrast is thicker.

Once a blade can be drawn over my arm above skin level and pop a few arm hairs I give it a shave test. Or sometimes skip straight to a shave test. It's Tshirt weather and I look awfully funny with hair on only one arm.

How well did the HHT work when you tested it on a DE blade ???

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Originally Posted by Matt1222

Hello all!

I've just purchased a Chosera 1k as a bevel setter to go along with my coticule. I am very new to honing and I have a couple of questions regarding this set up.

1. Does the Chosera need to be lapped upon receipt? If so, what is a good lapping option?

2. After setting the bevel on the 1k stone, can I go straight to the coticule with water only or is the dilucot method needed?

3. If I do need a slurry, what consistency am I looking for right when coming off the 1k to the coticule?

4. Should i be diluting the slurry my periodically adding water or will the razor breakdown the slurry on its own? Combination of both?

Thanks very much for the help! I definitely need it!

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While there it is possible to get a shave ready edge going from 1k to coticule on water, it's not something I would encourage; it takes quite a while.

Further more, I would advise leaving the dilucot for what it is for a while and start with the unicot method to anyone new to coticule honing (although it's a viable option for more experienced honers, too; I still use it after about 5 years of coticule honing, whenever I feel like it). It's also a good option to see how your stone works as a finisher. It is pertinent that you don't deviate too much from the method, as it relies on creating a secondary bevel and that is only possible with a rather limited amount of strokes.

And no, coticule slurry does not really break down.

And as mentioned above: make absolutely sure your bevel is finished. It is the most important part of sharpening, well, anything really.

My wife's hair does work on a DE blade and on other straights professionally honed. However I did do a shave test this morning and I was able to get a decent shave. Not the keenest edge by any means but it wasn't a painful shave. I'll take that as progress. I am still looking for the razor to do a significant grab on the stone. I have gotten some suction and a bit of a grab grab but nothing like in the honing videos I've seen. Any thoughts on how to get a keener result?

Careful what you wish for. When my coticule grabs a blade like in the videos, I'm in for a hard ride. It's kind of like it increases pressure on the blade resulting in deeper stria. Nothing good comes of it with my stone, and it's made me a little leery of that sticking sensation with other hones. It kind of makes sense, when the stone grips the blade you'll be prone to push harder to overcome that friction. We all know too much pressure is the enemy.

Ideas off the cuff, I use slick wet shave lather with almost every hone I have to finalize the edge. You could try this since the lather will just wash away with no worry about it seeping into the stone like oil would. I believe Longhaultanker uses his coticule dry and reports fair results, so that may be something to look into. For my coticule I use a thinned out mineral oil. Thinned out so that it doesn't stick as you described, because with straight mineral oil it will grab worse than pure water with just as poor a result. My coticule is also a royal PITA, I hope yours is friendlier!

Last thought, my coticule is by far and away not the keenest stone in my line up. I would say as far as keen goes, it's a side step from my Norton 8K. 1 pass will not shave as close as a single pass with the edges left by my other stones. 2 passes with a blade honed on my coticule will get me just about as close as 2 passes with a blade honed by anything else. BUT it is the most forgiving edge in that it wants to shave hair, not filet skin. Which also makes it the least irritating and most comfortably shaving edge out of my small line up of hones.

My travel Coticule I often use dry. It is so hard, fine, glassy, dry works just fine. For my larger 2 Coticules, slurry, dilute, clear water, all throughout looking for that grabbing sensation. Since I watched drmatt357 at YouTube, his 4 videos, I use this as my general guide. The grabbing sensation lets you know the stone has giving you all it has to give. It's time then to stop, not push through, as I understand what he (drmatt357) said.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes it can be done easily even on my Coti which is NOT good as anything but a finisher

One little hint You should be able to shave off the 1K BEFORE you go to the Coti yes really

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html


As to 1 stone honing take a look here for some hints and tricks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grJhZdo3wYI


Hone On

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Thanks Glen.

It's possible and with practice easy to use only a Coticule. You can even set the bevel with one.

Using heavy slurry and dilute after every 20-30 laps, depending on how fast the hone is. ( you Can check progress with a loupe).

Must old barbers used only one hone. All it takes is practice...

When you are on water only do 30 laps, no pressure. Then strop on canvas 10-20 laps, then it should pop armhair 5 mm over the skin.

Then strop on leather and you finished.

Must important rule is to use consistent strokes.

And as everybody else mentioned all hones need to be lapped flat.

Regards Kristian.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kristian

Thanks Glen.

It's possible and with practice easy to use only a Coticule. You can even set the bevel with one.

Using heavy slurry and dilute after every 20-30 laps, depending on how fast the hone is. ( you Can check progress with a loupe).

Must old barbers used only one hone. All it takes is practice...

When you are on water only do 30 laps, no pressure. Then strop on canvas 10-20 laps, then it should pop armhair 5 mm over the skin.

Then strop on leather and you finished.

Must important rule is to use consistent strokes.

And as everybody else mentioned all hones need to be lapped flat.

Regards Kristian.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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So I just got myself a lighted lupe. What exactly am I looking for on the edge? I was
Relatively happy with the shave I got from the razor I honed, but I am always looking to improve and hopefully get the keenest edge I can from my stone. (It is a La Viennette if that tells anyone anything about its characteristics). How can a lupe help and any thoughts on how I could improve the HHT responsiveness of the razor?

Thanks to everyone for all the help!

Well when the edge is set, there will be some fairly deep scratch patterns on the edge.

But the razor will shave armhair on contact with skin.

After 30 laps, a lot of the scratch should be removed.

Each dilution should remove some scratch until it's looks evenly sandblasted. When you come to the last stage, a mirror finish starts to emerge. A coticule will never be completely mirror finish, but when it's beginning to shine, your razor is properly finished.



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A quick update for everyone that has helped me out over the past few days with my first honing venture. I was able to get the blade to pass the HHT all along the edge and have a very nice and comfortable shave this morning. I am starting to learn the nuisances of my stone and have a bit of fun in the process. Thanks to everyone for your help, advice, and input. I could not have accomplished anything without it. On another note, I think I may have come down with a case of HAD.

Congrats on your success!

What did it take to squeeze the performance out of your stone?

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Originally Posted by Marshal

Congrats on your success!

What did it take to squeeze the performance out of your stone?

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Well it really took using more pressure than I was using. One of gssixgun's videos really helped. I wasn't putting enough pressure on the blade for the actual edge to be making contact with the stone. Once i found the right amount of pressure my stone was looking for it was a quick trip to a good result. It just took some time to figure out what the stone was telling me and understanding what the different feedback sensations meant.

I am sure I have a ton more to learn about this coticule and even more about honing in general, but it was a good start and definitely a fun learning experience.