Help with resurrection

Brief background: I used a shavette and VDH soap/brush for years before I'd heard of wet shaving. Then this winter I found this forum and addiction. I bought 2 shave ready straights on BST. An older guy I know had collected DE stuff but had a few straights he gave me. The Morley had this chip. I bought a King 1k 6k I used after taking out the chip on 320 wet dry sandpaper. Then used my carborundum 103; then Green paste on denim, and finally Red, then stripped on rough then smooth leather. It shaved, but rough and rashy; not pleasant.
1 hindsight probably glaring mistake: after the king, I took the tape off the spine and used the 103 and paste without, like I normally have just to refreshen. Where should I go next to move forward and advance this blade and my skill/knowledge?Attachment 263217

Let me try to add a couple more pics.Attachment 263241

So here's my first question. You say green paste and red paste. What green and red paste? There are a lot of options. If you're using say 6 micron paste like the Herold Solingen Green paste that popped up when I googled "Green and Red Paste", then you just hit your blade with what equates to a 2,500 grit hone. The red paste is 2 microns, which is about a 7K hone. So basically your paste could be walking your blade back, rather than forward.

I might suggest taking your blade back to the King 6K, then the Carborundum 103. Strop on plain linen/leather then test shave a patch. If it isn't right, walk it back down to the 1K and go back up yout progression.

Once you have it shaving off the Carborundom, then you can try putting the paste back into the routine - if it's suitably fine material that is.

The pastes are from Maggard's. Green is .50 micron and red is .10 micron. Did I mess up by using a layer of tape on The King and then no tape after?

That might have done it. Starting with tape, then finishing without may lower the spine and lift the edge. I'd wager it's a bit more likely that the bevel just needs a bit more work though.

Maggard's should be good stuff, but I stand by the suggestion to get it shaving of the Carborundum hone before moving on.

How about some pics of what it looks like now?

Here are some post honing picsAttachment 263280Attachment 263281Attachment 263282Attachment 263283

Hi, the spine looks worn down as if you took the tape off way before the paste.. or is that light playing tricks? Also looks like excessive pressure was applied to the middle area of the spine.

The razor looks to have a frown, I would personally try to recontor the edge to follow the curve of the spine. However, don't simply grind down on it at a straight angle (How did you take that chip out?). Try using knife honing strokes, maybe at 15-20 degree angle to the hone. The heel and the toe both need to come down a bit, from what I can tell by the pics. Be careful not to touch the middle so much anymore. You now have a bit more advanced task at hand, but it can be fixed.

I'm sure there will be more responses very soon.

I could tell my bevel was lighter On The toe and heel; realized I had focused uneven pressure on the middle, but now I set it on edge and your right, I'm starting to create a frown, primarily at the toe. The heel is lighter ground but at least slightly more in the smile direction.
So maybe try going back to the 6k, concentrating on the toe, then 103 to see how it shakes out? Is this a time circles might be better than longer strokes, to keep focus on the toe, or does it matter?
Obviously this is my first honing attempt. I appreciate the help.

Lets talk about stones first.

The 1K is fine. The 6K is fine. The 103 is a largely unknown barbers hone. And the problem there is barbers hones are man made, and vary massively from almost useless, to magical. Most were made to in house specifications, and because of that unless someone on here has and uses a 103 we can't really help you a great deal with it.

Until you know your stones you would be better off picking up a naniwa speciality 8K IMHO. The 8K naniwa been a modern synthetic is a known value. Everyone who has one has exactly the same material, abrasion rate, and feedback from that stone. Meaning any of the forum threads that mention that stone and how to use it can be directly applied to yourself. It also means we as a forum know exactly what you are finishing on and can tell you exactly what it should be feeling and performing like.

Your razor is a different matter. My first attempt at honing looked far far worse. I would take it like this personally.

Firstly you need to sort out the edge profile. It should smile ever so slightly and be very near to parallel to the spine. Use the spine as a guide. Find the point on the edge closest to the spine then use that as a reference to mark out points on the edge with a marker pen. Using those points regrind the edge using spine 1inch off the stone strokes till you have the new profile. Then reset the edge by taping with 3 layers of tape and using rolling X strokes and circle strokes. Once the edge is set, remove 2 layers of tape and lightly kill the edge. Then using 1 layer of tape put a final bevel on the razor, The 1K edge should tree top hair. Then use the 6K still with a layer of tape. Then finally the 8K and your pasted strops. If it goes well you should end up with something that looks alright but that is totally dependant on your skill level.

The reason you follow the spine is down to trigonometry. The distance spine to edge, and the width of the spine control what the bevel angle will be. And bevel angle is important, too acute an angle doesn't hold an edge, too obtuse and it becomes a wedge that won't cut hair.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4168/3...919ecc6a_z.jpg

PM Utopian about your Carborundum barber hone. He collects them, so should be able to get you squared away on it.

Out of the 6 barber hones in my possession, none polish less than an 8K stone. Most are beyond that. But I don't personally own a carborundum, or a 103 so I can't comment on it specifically. If I remember right I was told it gives a shave about equivalent to a Swaty barber hone, which is pretty decent - around 8K give or take a bit. I have a razor in my rotation that gets maintained exclusively with a Swaty and linen/leather for what that's worth.

Yup, frown. Edge need to be reshaped to match the spine.

Here is a good thread on how to do that. (Make me Smile)

Skip the Carborundum and pick up an 8k as said. And perhaps a diamond plate or file.

It is a pretty involved repair, if done properly and you seem to lack the tools to do so. Not saying it can’t be done, but you do need more tools and possibly experience, making repairs on razors.

The repair must be done first then properly honed, two very separate tasks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshal

But I don't personally own a carborundum, or a 103 so I can't comment on it specifically. If I remember right I was told it gives a shave about equivalent to a Swaty barber hone, which is pretty decent - around 8K give or take a bit

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i've not seen one for a 103, I have seen one for a 102 it's on razor and stone.

Carborundum No.102 Barber hone test

But it isn't relevant as a 103 could be massively different. The 102 is also a pretty poor barbers hone in general. The review link shows it to be about 6K grit. That doesn't mean the 103 is a poor stone at all, but it still means the forum is 100% in the dark about it's properties unless another owner shows up. The 8K speciality for the money is a fine alternative with known values, That the whole community can pretty much comment on.

Utopian might have a 103 as was suggested earlier. If he does then he will have tested it.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/members/utopian.html

Actually it is relevant - and Modine's test somewhat mirrors what I said earlier, he said 6-8K equivalent. Depending on technique and honing media (water, oil, smith's, lather etc.) I believe that. My Swaty is around an 8K hone and the shave feels much the same as my Norton 8k. Much quicker to get the job done though, in spite of a 5x2 profile compared to Norton's 8x3. That little bugger can peel a lot of steel away in a very small amount of time for a finishing hone.

I got curious and did a little digging, there's a good bit of info in this thread about them:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...dum-hones.html

101a through 105 are all roughly the same material/grit, and should be decent stones. I use the term decent as '8K equivalent/comfortable shave if utilized properly.' YMMV. If you've got a tough beard, you may want more oomph than it provides. But most should probably be able to get a passable shave from it.

I may regret saying this because next time one pops up on Ebay I'm liable to see more competition, but the 201 is the Carborundum I have an eye out for.

Thanks for the link and suggestion to PM utopian.

Ok. Please believe me...i am listening. I have reviewed more old threads and gotten clear feedback/advice in bite sized pieces i think i can start to chew: 1) make sure i get the initial geometry right in relation to the spine 2)get my pressure balanced, light, under control, 3) start with tape=end with tape4) barber hone is maintainer, not finisher.
I can't resist the urge to be "that guy" one more time: with what i have now, I'm best off to get a norton 4k/8k combo for @ 20 bucks more than a kuromaku 12k, and to get the combo next. I'm just torn due to price and probably as a symptom of still trying to walk before I crawl. Thanks for your time, input, and patience.

Small off topic rant here, but I've come to dislike the "barber hones are maintainers, not finishers" line of thought. When I use a finishing stone it is the last thing in my progression. I have 4 shave ready blades right now that were honed on nothing but a Norton 4K and different barber hones. 1 of the 4 has seen nothing but a Swaty from bevel set to final polish. There's nothing I can do with a finisher that I can't with a barber hone, and vice versa.

To steal a quote from Gssixgun:

"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen

:soapbox:

With that said, you have the King 1/6 right? I want to say you'd be better off getting the Shapton, and maybe finding something to slip between the 1 & 6K later down the road. But the Kuromaku takes a light touch and can be unforgivingly harsh. So I'll frame it this way:

If you want to be able to make a wicked sharp 12K edge, get the Kuromaku and a play razor that you can hone the stuffing out of, and spend time learning to use it in conjunction with the King stones.

If you want an easier time learning to get a blade shaving sharp, get the Norton 4/8. I find it a bit more forgiving, and a 1/4/8 progression will likely be easier to learn than 1/6/12. We also have a massive JaNorton thread on it with a lot of tips, and everyone's got one in the stable just about so it's a very well known quantity.

Or you can save money and learn to use the King and the barber hone. Which brings me to the question I haven't seen asked or addressed yet, are you using magnification? If not, I would recommend getting some sort of 30x jeweler's loupe regardless which path you choose. And if so, are you seeing the Carborundum improve the edge after the 6K?