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Ooops,"bought" not buoght...lol!
I know, right? What? You don't already have one?!
Yes, I've been putting off getting one because I didn't really think I needed it because I have so many other kinds of finishing stones. But I'm constantly bombarded with hearing about how they are the new standard for a razor replacing the Norton 8k.
Ordered from SRD on Saturday so hopefully I get it by the end of the week.
Any tips or gotcha's from you guys on the use and maintenance of the Nani 12k?
:rock:
I've found it to be a real workhorse. In fact I bought one for two friends so they could enjoy it (they both paid me back).
I use slurry on all of my hones including the Naniwa 12K, then finish on clear water. I don't use pasted strops unless I'm asked to and I find the Naniwa 12K to give a nice smooth shave. With that said pinklather finds it a bit 'crispy' but still an enjoyable shave.
Have fun learning it. As Glen says:
"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen
Great info, thanks.
So if PL is finding it crispy, is he doing any kind of stropping afterwards? Wouldn't that have some effect on the final feeling of the shave?
I just started using strops a couple months ago so I'm still learning them too. The coolest part of learning a stone is learning to use it in different ways for different outcomes. Like you said.
I bought a Hart razor here a couple weeks ago that was "touched" by Glen. That edge was so incredible I had to talk to him on the phone about it. What an awesome guy he is. He uses a Nani 12k and likes it, probably what kicked me into buying it now that I think about it. Yea.... sometimes the electrons fire off in the right order in this gray matter of mine...lol
pinklather belongs to what he calls the 'Strop Till You Drop Club' it's not unusual for him to strop 200+ laps on leather alone for an everyday shave.
What is crisp anyway? Perfect? A little too close?
I've found that 99.9% of Everything about shaving with a straight razor is 'Personal Preference' and pinklather prefers a 'buttery smooth' feel to an edge. I on the other hand like a slightly 'crispy' feel. Crispy isn't 'harsh' it just lets you know that the edge is there. I guess that's why I don't use pasted strops. I like the feel of the edge right off of the hones and plain strops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerdvaark
Which brings me to stropping after honing. Typically, I strop 50-60 on cloth (usually Neil Miller Linen) and then 200 to 250 on leather.
I love the edge off of the 12k, but I have to be more careful using an edge off of it than a natural stone finished edge.
It is a very close cutting, yet unforgiving edge.
Ok, yea, we're definitely on the same page. That was exactly what I thought it was. In between perfect and too sharp. Lets you know it's there, but for me then it is usually too late.
Well after talking to you guys I'm really pumped to try it out. Hell yea I'll go a couple of rounds with a Naniwa 12k! Bring it!
:rofl2:
I don't mean to say it is a bad edge, but definitely prefer it when the edge starts to go grayer at the temples.
Probably 100 on linen, then 250ish on leather fresh off the stone, minimum. But i am a fairly light handed stropper, if that makes sense.
The 12k was my first "finisher" and I still love it. Over time I've developed a feeling for how many stroke to use on a particular blade. If I'm working with a very thin bevel I may only do 8-10 laps and up to 25-30 on a really stubborn wedge. There is a sweet spot for getting a great edge on the 12k. I find that too manny laps will give a harsh edge. Once you get used to it you'll find that it's predictable, consistent and very user friendly.
As far as stropping goes. I'll usually do about 100 laps after honing and about 40 between shaves. I find that I will see improvement on HHT up until about 100 laps(on leather) and very little difference after that.
The Nani 12k is a darn fine hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerdvaark
The norton is too but might not be called an 8k by the same
standard the Nani folk use.
For me the Nani was the first hone that reliably gave me an edge in
that sweet spot that I call the second and third days of most DE blades.
Do not over soak or over flatten...
you will get a lot of value out of it.
Some days I wish I had sent all my razors to someone once then
maintained them with a 13K Nani hone only..
Let us know how it works out for ya! With all the stones in your collection I'm curious to know if it offers anything the rest don't.
I bought a Nani 12K a few months ago to be the 'next step' after my Norton 8K. I really, REALLY like the edge I get off it. I waited until I got to the point I felt I was getting the very best I could off the 8K, before purchasing the 12K. I, honestly, couldn't believe how much better it was. A nice 'finisher.'
Now, I'm considering the 'next step up,' either a 25 or 30K. But, that's where the BiG(er) $'s come in. For a guy who just does my own, I know it'll never pay for itself, but, that is where my OCD kicks in. Until then, I'll just procrastinate.
To the OP: My suggestion, if you haven't already, buy the holder from SRD. I tried using the tray/holder for the Norton's, but they just don't fit and have to be precariously perched at an angle. It's worth the $20 for the stone holder (which of course, can be used with any other squared off stone.)
I'm still learning but I got the Nani 12K and I find it give me that sharp feel that I'm looking ofr. But after some stropping it calms it down a touch and makes it just less than the sharp/crisp feel. As said, I'm still trying to figure it out but I think its a fine finisher.
I tend to use my rubber base for just about all my stones so no need to worry about Nortons not fitting correctly or buying a secondary base.
aces I think you will find the dollars you spend on that 30k doesn't really add much to you shave, and to be honest most blades don't seem to take that much stone ithout breaking down, I have one razor that does well on the 30k and the rest do better off the 12k. as with all hones that are usable on razors, its still in the hands of the guy doing the honing, in some guys hands the 12k is a little harsh, on the other hand I get one back from Glen with the 12k naniwa, its as smooth as any other natural. cant even tell the difference.
so learn it and get the most out of it and I feel you will come to realize the other stones are a love affair, which is ok. but once you learn it , I will say that it will fit into your honing den Tc
If I can match the scratch pattern I saw on that Hart with the 12k I'll be one happy camper!:beer1:
I love my Naniwa SS 12k, too. As Glen also says, "Hard to beat the edge off a Naniwa 12k at any price." Word from the master! ;)
Yes, the Naniwa 12k is a nice stone, and can finish very well on it’s own. I usually strop on 125 CBN to finish or plain leather, depending on the razor.
It is a stone with a lot of depth, in that it can finish, be used as a jumping off stone for naturals or even a bevel setter/touch up stone, it can be that aggressive.
Here is an old post where I removed a small chip, reset a bevel and took to shave ready in 80 circles, and 206 laps. Just to demonstrate the range of the stone.
Mine is an old one, several years old pink one, that is getting a bit thin and have been thinking about a replacement. When I do I will get the ½ inch plain stone no base.
It is a simple stone that easily will remove 8k stria to a near mirror finish bevel and super straight edge.
I have a 20k and do not like the edge from it, and also find some/ many razors cannot handle the edge, I find it harsh, though CBN can tame it, but the edge can get thin and fail. I don’t have that issue with the 12k, (try some edge trailing finishing strokes).
Lately I go to naturals from an 8k Junpaku (a similar bevel, and edge, not quite as polished) or the Super Stone 12k. You can go from it to a jnat with tomo slurry, or slates easily on most stones and razors.
I have tried several of the new white 12k versions, and they fee and perform exactly the same as my old work horse.
I call it the Honda Accord of synthetic stones, they just work…
Yeah, I know, it's more of a want than a need. That's why I said I'll just procrastinate, for now. I get very nice shaves off my 12K. Like you said, the 25 or 30K is more of a love affair.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrideshd
Oh I'm totally into it for the love too but not at those prices for a 25 -30k when I can get a nice Nakayama instead. That is true love!:beer1:
I read a lot of blades just can't handle a 20-30K edge. I don't think I've heard of anyone saying that about a Jnat. That's one of the things that keeps me from even considering a higher grit stone than the ones I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerdvaark
:w
Such a YMMV sport. I'm recalling this double-blind test Glen conducted with a member here years ago, and the gentleman wound up preferring the Escher/Thuringian edge over the JNat one. :shrug: At that point, I believe both edges are near-perfect and it's just splitting hairs (pun intended).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerdvaark
Great to hear Aerdvaark!
Keep us posted.
I have a new Shapton 30K and while it is early I have yet to get a better shave using it than if I hadQuote:
Originally Posted by tcrideshd
stopped at 18k in a Shapton progression which I have had for a long time and just works.
I have been playing with the 12k naniwa again and continue to be pleased with it.
At about 10K perhaps 8K the grit of the hone seems less important than honing
technique and stropping.
I did pull out my old Belgian Coticule and gave a harsh edge five gentle touches
then after stropping it shaved nicely.
The notion of a good shave and a sharp edge are not the same.
The only standard is the shave tests.
Your face, your razor.
I have really enjoyed mine since getting it. I went from finishing on 8k Norton to 12k Naniwa SS. I have found that light strokes and not many from 8k will really make the edge pop not only in shine but feel. Far as maintenance goes I just use water with no slurry and after I am done rinse and clean any black off and let air dry. I hope you enjoy it when it arrives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Here read it again
Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Maybe one more time
Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Truth
Ok, she is here. Needed a lapping real bad. This puts the final coffin nail into my DMT lapping stone. I was just able to get a mirror finish evenly throughout the top of the stone just before my dmt plate permanently welded itself to the top of it. I won't be able to use my real scope until Friday. I do have my little Carson though, I'll use that.
So very very Charmin smooooth! Whoa!
Ran my shave ready BOSS Solingen across the splashed top doing the dive sequence lightly about 10 times on each side and I really have a complete winner here. Mirrored edge,HHT3/4 to HHT5 easily now. I'm looking at the edge it made and it is a perfect line with no chips, from what I can see right now anyways.
Came with a tiny chip in the corner, who cares.
Easily worth the money. I'll have to wait until tomorrow afternoon to shave with it. I'll hit it with 15/40 clean linen/leather before hand. I want to see where that puts me at with crispiness. I'm sure there will be some with that low count...
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Cool. I've been tempted by that stone many times over the years but never found a compelling enough reason to succumb. Too many stones, not enough razors (or days to use them)
I would be not be reluctant to say this is pretty much an end all be all stone. I haven't tried treating it like a jnat yet to see what happens.
The 12K Naniwa is without doubt a fantastic finishing stone although you can push that edge a bit more with Suehiro Gokumyo 20K now we are talking smoooooooooooooooth.:D
Alright!! I spent a little time figuring out this 12k stone so I could shave with it tonight. I took an H.M. Christensen razor that was already shave ready and did around 20 light laps on each side then checking with my Accuscope. I did one more set more to get perfect flatness, keenness and sharpness. Gave it 40 laps on clean leather and had the second best shave of my life. First being from a Hart that Glen touched. So, in closing, I really like the Naniwa 12k. A lot!! Oh and yes it was very VERY CRISP.
Awesome news, Aerdvaark! I got mine out today to touch up a few. Every honer should own one of these.
I stopped at the 10k superstone because I have the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k to finish with Synthetic wise. Way I see it I could probably have stopped at the 8k, as the jump to the 20k works, but, now I've gotten a few Japanese natural stones, and they are solely hard stones for finishing and so far I've gone from the 10k to the jnats and touch wood, things are going very well. Only problem is that I suffer like many from HAD and it's only a matter of time before two jnats become three.......you know the rest guys....
Ok I think I know what hone this is but the images are not labeled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerdvaark
My HAD is burning and giving me an itch.
A link or specifics please.
By the time I have saved up enough you might have more experience with it
and I will have more experience with my last purchase to decide if I "need" it.
Now off to practice what I preach...
practice practice... slow, smooth,
