Naniwa flattening stone question

I should start by saying that I am really new to honing. I have been using straight razors for about a year and have five in rotation.

I have had some success in refreshing them on a pasted strop, but recently decided to try my hand at honing.

I have a Naniwa 12000 stone and I find that it clogs up fairly quickly. I managed to clean it with some success with a nylon pan scourer. Recently I decided to invest in a Naniwa flattening stone. The idea being that I would need one sooner of later anyway and that it would help to refresh the surface of the stone too.

It worked great, the only thing now is that the flattening stone is clogging up. Is there a way to prevent this? Or a way to refresh it? I am doing my best to use plenty of water and keep it as clean as I can.

Maybe I am just doing it all wrong. I must say though that the blades I have sharpened are vastly improved and the comfort and closeness of my shaves with them have too.

I am only at the refreshing stage and certainly not what I would call honing. The bevels are all already set as I buy my razors shave ready. Maybe I will come to that later but will need coarser stones for that.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

IMHO, you need to just get rid of the flattening stone and take the advise on here many tines and just get a DMT325 diamond plate, once it's been prepped it's the best thing since sliced bread, or get a rubbing stone. But the plate is the way to go.

How much honing are you doing that your loading up the stone? If your just refreshing it only takes a few strokes,Mike on my razors I very seldom do more than 5 laps then shave , if it needs more I do 5 more. Then I just wipe the stone offender water and let dry. When I take t out the next time I spray it and do 4-5 figure eights with the diamond plate then spray it again and do my laps. Tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

IMHO, you need to just get rid of the flattening stone and take the advise on here many tines and just get a DMT325 diamond plate, once it's been prepped it's the best thing since sliced bread, or get a rubbing stone. But the plate is the way to go.

How much honing are you doing that your loading up the stone? If your just refreshing it only takes a few strokes,Mike on my razors I very seldom do more than 5 laps then shave , if it needs more I do 5 more. Then I just wipe the stone offender water and let dry. When I take t out the next time I spray it and do 4-5 figure eights with the diamond plate then spray it again and do my laps. Tc

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Thanks TC, I did look at the rubbing stone but assumed that I would need the flattening stone. I will look out for a diamond plate.

In truth, I think I am probably doing too many laps. Partly due to inexperience and partly because I have put off this refresh for too long. I was afraid to ruin my razors.

I was trying the refresh then trying the hanging hair test and it just didn't seem to work. In the end I gave up on the test and just shaved with it and it was great.

I find that even on the first stroke there are grey streaks on the stone. Maybe I am pressing on too hard. I have read up on things and watched a ton of videos but still not sure on what I am doing. Having said that I am pleased with the results.

For refreshing on the 12k, you should not be pressing at all, and as TC said, you should not need to do more than 5 to 10 laps. In general, I can refresh the 12k just by wiping it with my hand while it is wet.

I got the flattening stone as well and used it until I was told by a mentor not to. Reason is that they also wear down and they are not flat. So after that I tried a little experiment and put the flattening stone on an Atoma. He was absolutely correct, that stone was not flat at all. I have not touched it since then and use the diamond plate.

Just wanted to clarify that the above is about the flattening stone and naniwas up to 8K which I have and not the 12K stone itself.

Ya In my limited experience that Nani cuts fast, lots faster than you think and if you add to much pressure it can wear out a lot of steel. And what Ron said, that's pretty much how I clean mine, hands and water. The pressure thing is what us hard to learn, when you need some and when you don't. This is why some say they get harsh shaves or too crisp a shave from synthetics, once you really learn your Nani 12k you will get nice soft smooth shaves from it.

Try not to let your blade go too long before refresh, instead of waiting till it needs it, go on a maintenance routine,, say every 10-12 shaves, take it to your stone for 5 laps very light, then strop and shave, if not there yet do another 5. This will keep it shaving without degrading plus you just won't need to do any heavy honing. Good luck. Remember " less is more". Tc

I still have much to learn.

At least I have much more of an understanding of the shave now and I can really tell the difference between a good edge and a bad one.

Thanks you all for your replies. I guess the flattening stone was one of those expensive lessons to learn.

Well it makes a good paper weight. Tc

The only issue with the flattening stone is that it needs to be flattened too. I've got a Norton flattening stone that will do fine for most applications. Once you have it flat it should serve OK, but a diamond plate is better. Comes flat, doesn't need to be maintained to ensure flatness. CKTG sells a 400/1000 for under 40 bucks that will do everything you want. Or there's the tried and true DMT 325 route.

I have a naniwa scrubbing brick too. I like the little fella, gentler on my hones and keeps the flattening stone/lapping plates away. You can also typically scrub the swarf free with your fingers like utopian suggested, I don't break out the Naniwa brick until the stone's so loaded up that finger scrubbing fails to refresh it. I only use the lapping plate when I see a stone starting to dish a bit.

By the way, if you pick up the scrubbing brick I suggest rounding the edges on the side you'll be scrubbing with. It's something I do with all my rubbing/slurry/nagura type stones to keep them from wanting to dig in and scratch the surface of a hone.

Is this the one I need? D8C Continuous Diamond | The Perfect Edge

Also I was wondering last night if I am having to do so much because I bought my razors shave ready. Maybe they were made shave ready using tape, and I am not using tape. I realise that the difference is very minimal but since I am using such a fine grit it might take more to get it to the point where it works well. Just a thought and I might just be talking nonsense here.

Thank you all again for you help, not just with this but with everything. I see the same people coming up answering all of my silly questions and I am very grateful that you take the time to help noobs like me.

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Originally Posted by Marshal

CKTG sells a 400/1000 for under 40 bucks that will do everything you want. Or there's the tried and true DMT 325

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Sorry for being dense, but, 'CKTG' ? A sharpening supply store?


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Originally Posted by bruseth

Sorry for being dense, but, 'CKTG' ? A sharpening supply store?


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And I'm equally sorry for not looking it up on Google prior to posting - Chef Knives To Go

Thanks for the informative post.




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Originally Posted by Porl

Is this the one I need? D8C Continuous Diamond | The Perfect Edge

Also I was wondering last night if I am having to do so much because I bought my razors shave ready. Maybe they were made shave ready using tape, and I am not using tape. I realise that the difference is very minimal but since I am using such a fine grit it might take more to get it to the point where it works well. Just a thought and I might just be talking nonsense here.

Thank you all again for you help, not just with this but with everything. I see the same people coming up answering all of my silly questions and I am very grateful that you take the time to help noobs like me.

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It would depend on how much tape was used. I have some older razors that are near wedge that like 3 layers. In that instance you would struggle to get the 12K to touch up the edge, simply for the fact there would be a huge bevel without tape, and that volume of metal removal isn't going to happen quickly.

For a regular ground razor that has perhaps had 1 layer of tape you should just go for it. Just watch for the razor undercutting the water, and you can always ink the edge with a marker pen to be 100% sure. The bevel in this instance is probably not going to be significantly larger.

I have multiple ways to clear a 12K. I like the nylon pan scourers. I have the little rubbing block that used to come with the chosera line, and that is also pretty good. My favourite item to use is an optical glass block. They have nice chamfered corners, Absolutely no grit rating, and are very flat, I find a quick rub down with it removes pretty much all the swarf loading. They will scuff up a little if you use them on low grit hones, but for the 5-12K range the glass block serves me very well.

Glass Block, 7.5 x 5 x 1.8cm. - Science First

I'll flatten my stones when I think they need it, It's not very often to be fair. And certainly not every time I hone. Probably every 10 razors give or take. And when I do lap them off I like the diamond plate.

Seldom use anything but 600 W/D sandpaper and a chunk of finished marble I got from a kitchen counter supply place. I have a DMT I used setting upa couple Arkansas stones, but everything else (coticule, Naniwa SS stones, BBW, Zulu Grey) all get the W/D treatment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Porl

Is this the one I need? D8C Continuous Diamond | The Perfect Edge

Also I was wondering last night if I am having to do so much because I bought my razors shave ready. Maybe they were made shave ready using tape, and I am not using tape. I realise that the difference is very minimal but since I am using such a fine grit it might take more to get it to the point where it works well. Just a thought and I might just be talking nonsense here.

Thank you all again for you help, not just with this but with everything. I see the same people coming up answering all of my silly questions and I am very grateful that you take the time to help noobs like me.

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Yep, that's the DMT most start with. Can't really answer the tape question as I've never touched up a blade that had been taped by someone else and I tend to remember what amount I used. I've read that it shouldn't take much since it's a small difference in angle. Another possibility I've seen once in a while is someone using too little pressure and not really removing steel. Maybe try adding just a tiny bit of torque?

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Originally Posted by bruseth

And I'm equally sorry for not looking it up on Google prior to posting - Chef Knives To Go

Thanks for the informative post.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yep that's the one. You'd think by now I would know better than to use shorthand when referring someone to a place or product.

To keep it simple, I use an Atoma 400, have used one for years. On my Naniwa's I like to have clean stone, so I do 6 figure 8's on the Atoma 400 before starting, even a brief 6 stroke touch up. The Atoma plate is flat, and by just doing the fig 8's you ensure your stones stay flat too. You don't have to be a pro to get full advantage out of an Atoma plate, they last and last. I have a dmt325 too, but I prefer the Atoma.

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Originally Posted by Iceni

Just watch for the razor undercutting the water.

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That is really helpful. Having had a go using all of the advice here I could really see this happen. The stone fared much better too. I got myself a little scrubbing brick and I will get the DMT325 after my next payday. I guess that there is no real hurry for that now anyway.

I now feel that this will only improve with practice bearing all this advice in mind.

Once I have mastered this it will be on to the next thing. One step at a time.

No there's no hurry at all for a diamond plate, Wet and dry paper on something flat like a granite worktop saver is more than enough. The diamond plate is more for convenience. You can use it and have it put away in a very short amount of time. It doesn't shed grit, and you don't have to check for left over loose grit on the face of the hone, And it can all be done over the sink. I didn't have a plate for well over a year when I started to hone.

Wet and dry in comparison is a bit more time consuming, you have to get out the flat surface, You tend to work over a worktop that will need cleaning afterwards, And you will need to spray or splash water onto the Wet and dry paper as you work.

Both systems should be considered, but the wet and dry method has more utility. It can be used on badly dished ebay natural stones, You can get more force onto the rock and a much longer swing. Meaning faster material removal. It's also cheap and the paper has many grit options. The next step up again in material removal is loose grit silicon carbide on a baking tray a method that is almost always reserved for the hardest of finishing rock like Arkansas and Charnley forest.

I use my Naniwa's under running water. It keeps them from clogging up and it enables me to do very smooth laps because it is gliding over the water. It also removes any particles on the stone. I was told that the water isn't the key to getting good results, it just keeps the pressure much lower because of the water cushion. It works for me and I find cleaning the stones much easier because the metal doesn't clog the stone.

If you are clogging up the 12k you may have to much pressure. Try lapping it under running water.
I had the discussion with Lynn and he said the running water reduces the friction between the blade and water by cushioning it. That's why my results are better. Less pressure on finishing stones is key.

+1 On the DMT325 ! As a matter of fact, I threw my flatten stone away.

Mike