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I came across this hone and it perplexed me. It looks very much like an Escher, with a very similar label. However, the label doesn't have the Escher name on it. The most confusing part is that it states the hone can be used with oil.
Does anyone have any idea what kind of hone this is?
Attachment 268598
Noooooooo. Use no oil with that hone. Bad, bad, very bad.
It says in the packaging use only with water. Aside from completely destroying the value of your hone, I have no idea what will happen. I would be more inclined to experiment with soap or glycerine, if I felt the need. I am very happy with the edges with water so I have not strayed
Is it possible the hone in this thread is the same as the hone pictured in post #14 of this thread? The labels look alike.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...oescher-2.html
the comment above is one I'd go with. Even if it's possible to use one with oil (which would make it very slow - no clue if you could slurry it with oil and what the quality of the edge would be), ruining the value would be enough reason to not do it.
Coticules, same thing - you can use them with oil, but enough people don't like that, that I wouldn't do it. Oil goes less far into them, too. it would probably stain a sedimentary hone. The couple of times I've gotten a drop of oil for a split second on one of my jnats, the mark has stayed for a very long time, even long after it has no effect on honing.
If you look closely at the label you can see that it says "Use water or oil" that was why I was so confused. And it doesn't state its an Escher. Very confusing hone. Also, its not mine, just a random one I saw on the internet
Attachment 268601
That is a little bit better shot of the portion of the label I am talking about.
Attachment 268605
Here is an Escher label from a box lid. The script on the right in the bottom it says use with water only and keep them free of oil and grease.
I definitely agree. All of my personal Eschers have only been used with water. I just came across the above pictures and found it very interesting and perplexing that this stone, which is labeled very similarly to an Escher, states "Use water or oil" in the bottom left hand corner. Although the Escher name is no where on the stone, the label looks very much like an Escher label.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
I don't own the above-referenced stone, nor have I seen it in person, I just came across the picture of the label and was very confused by the direction on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
If that's a picture that should be clickable, it's not coming up as such. I can't click on it, and can only see an image that's too small to read.
Aside from the discussion of what escher and co says, though, certainly there are English slates that people like to oil, and they work fine. In my experience, they are much slower on oil, though.
I saw that one. There is a way better pic of the label that clearly says water or oil. Not an Escher. My guess would be it isn't a Thuri either, but if it is than it would be ruined with oil.
hopefully this is a better quality picture.Attachment 268607
I have no idea what that hone is. I'm sure you could find out. There are a ton of homes out there that you can use with oil or water. Some hones like oils better, but with the increased surface tension the get slower.
Can you take a clear picture of the stone from the end (with the label side down) so that we can see what it looks like?
You have two dilemmas (well, not really a dilemma):
1) What is the stone, and is it worth anything? Presume the person in the picture is getting shaved, suggesting that it's some sort of thuri type stone (could be rebadged slate from somewhere else, though)
2) If it is a thuri stone, what would you do with it?
It's interesting to know that the label says that you can use it with oil. If you try it with water and it works well, and you never intend to use it with oil, then it's still just a curiosity.
In terms of Thuris, they are Slate, correct? There are a lot of English slates that can be used with water or oil, and some that are traditionally not (maybe because of what they were used for - WOA comes to mind, often used to polish silver).
Not advocating oiling up the stone in any case unless you really want to use it oiled and don't care whether or not that costs you some money down the road. If it turns out to be more coarse than the typical thuri, then....well, I'd still sell it instead (common knowledge, of course, that sometimes a stone that's a bit aggressive on water is a stone that will work just fine on oil).
I don't know, but genuine Escher hone labels warn to beware of imitations and look for the Escher signature on the 'real' labels. That label looks similar to a genuine Escher, but I don't think it is identical, referring to the barber scene in the center of the label.
Attachment 268624
I definitely agree that the similarities are numerous. Strange that there is no maker's name whatsoever. It certainly could be one of the "imitations" the Escher labels refer to.
This isn't a hone I own or have seen in person. Its just one I came across that struck me as strange because of the label's look, the look of the hone itself, and the instructions regarding the use of oil.
I don't know but I cropped the photos and here are close ups of the center piece of the labels for comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
Attachment 268659Attachment 268660
Very similar, but not exactly the same position of characters and what not. Could be one of those 'bogus' stones Escher & Co warned about. I've never seen a bona fide Escher with a label recommending oil, but there is a lot I haven't seen. hatzicho or doorsch may be along, and they are very well versed on these. Perhaps they could confirm one way, or the other.
I'd say that's a pretty blatant rip off of the Escher trademark, and exactly what they were warning about. Any pictures of the rest of the stone? Maybe it's not even a Thuri at all.
I don't think this is a thuringia hone. Beside the well known barber scene, nothing reminds of a thuringian. The typical thuringian identifying word on labels is "water hone" or "waterwhetstone" or something similar and never oil was recomended for usage. A company simply covered the barber scene for their hones- whatever they are, if natural or man made. Also the hone was mainly produced for export as you see on four different languages. This was also typical for some thuringian wholeslaers that used the languages german, englich, french and spain - I believe, on their labels.
Summarizing I think the hone is not a thuringian, distributed somewhat maybe around or after WW2, covering several elements of the old -good selling- thuringian hones, maybe a natural or man made. With better pictures of the surface and the sides we may get a better idea.
Warning of imitations was pretty common in the past, whether there were a lot of imitations or not.
"accept only genuine..."
"beware of imitations that don't measure up to the original..."
It's a free pat on the back. Hatzicho's thoughts about it being on the market after Escher was out of business would explain why it could be such a ripoff in a trade dress sense.
An overnight soak of your jnat in rubbing alcohol should remove the oil or honing solution. They used some kind of an oily honing solution on some of them, and I've 'de-oiled' several. Whatever it is it's yellow and stinks, but the alcohol works well.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Cheers, Steve
Can anyone read the two words above the trademark on the non-Escher hone? Are they a name?
That's just basically "Registered Trademark" in German. The one that looks like a name to me looks like it says "Marcus Depuser" or "Marcus Deposer." However that could well be "Registered Trademark" in some other language.
It says Marque Deposee a french Term for Registered Trademark
I might shed some light into that riddle here, actually i have to search thru my Escher Database to give some details.....
Well had to do a bit of search, as Hatzicho already mentioned i would guess that it might be a synthethic stone....Quote:
Originally Posted by doorsch
i found those Pictures of the "Ideal" and "Perfect" Razor hones, which showed the same Artwork, or nearly an identical artwork, i dont remember where i have seen those in one of the old catalogues...all are advertised with the old silver Medal from 1903 Linz and 1903 Hannover and all have the "usage with oil or water" printed on the instructions....actually the stones themselves look less green and to tend to go more into a brown color.
http://up.picr.de/29934266sq.jpg
http://up.picr.de/29934267ea.jpg
http://up.picr.de/29934268fa.jpg
http://up.picr.de/29934269ph.jpg
http://up.picr.de/29934270ge.jpg
So is this an Escher product, or a company appropriating an approximation of the Escher label to ride their coattails so to speak ........ :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by doorsch
I'm pretty sure I've got a Perfect hone somewhere with that same set of labels.
Not sure here, iam sure ive seen a Catalog with the Perfect Hone right now i cant remember which catalogue it was....Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
The "Ideal" hones were also sold from Apex, but those were double sided hones and they did not show the Barber Scene....
