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The Shapton Ceramic Kuromaku #8000 hone is new to me.
After one tune up honing and one shave I am quite pleased.
I may like it for my face more than the finer Shapton Ceramic 12K.
Too early to say more than watch this rock! It has potential.
It is splash and go and the box has air vents so it will dry in the box...
I am now tempted to take a drill and vent my Norton's plastic boxes
if I do not sell my Nortons to make room.
The Shapton 2k, 5k, and 8k Pro have been my main sequence for some time now. The 2k and 5k for a few years and I added the 8k about a year ago. They do the job well.
Cheers, Steve
Your Norton boxes must be defective. Mine all have vent holes.Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
I guess I need to look at them again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
Are these Ceramic Kuromaku stones a step up from the Shapton GS stones I currently use ?
They are the same as the Shapton Pro stones for the most part.
Yes, they're non-US Shapton Pros. Here's a breakdown of the Shapton line:
Shapton Glass HR (white) - designed to cut the Lie-Nielsen stainless A2 plane steel, the softest and fastest and releases fresh sharp grit easily. This is why Glen doesn't recommend them for beginners I believe. Grits are designed to double (or be able to double) in the Glass series for the most part.
Shapton Pro/Kuromaku - the older 'traditional' line, these are harder and slower. Grits are kind of graded 'coarse, medium, fine' and aren't designed to double.
Shapton Glass HC (grey) - the newest series, still incomplete, allegedly more like the Pro but on glass. I did see some microchipping (rare for me) on hard Kikuboshi Swedish steel wirh the 8k HR that I did not see with the 8k Pro but that's the only example so far.
Cheers, Steve
Steve,
Thanks so much for the breakdown, I currently use a Chosera 1K for bevel set, chipping, correcting geometry issues but if the razor has no issues I usually start on the Shapton 4K HR with a light DN slurry then rinse it off as I go then go to the Shapton 8K HR and this completes my mid work, to me the Shapton HR stones cut very fast and can grind away steel pretty quickly if not careful, after the 8K I use a NN 12 that I got pretty cheap but it's not bad using it before I go to my favorite JNAT finisher with a double tomo finish.
I was thinking about it and there's a strong possibility the holes are a recent addition. My Norton stones are only 2 years old, maybe less. Just assuming by your join date your Norton set likely predates mine. Nothing a quarter inch drill bit couldn't resolve though.Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Can't really comment on the Kuro 8K, I skipped that and got the 12K. Which I did manage to get a surprisingly smooth and comfortable edge off of. It's just very tricky, and I'm not sure I could replicate those results another time. Good to know that the 8K is easier to coax a comfortable shaving edge from though.
I have a question about these Shaptons. On an eBay site 330mate they advertise/sell Shapton, Naniwa and a range of naturals that don't get good appraisals. My question is identifying the Shapton stones they sell. They are the ones in the plastic boxes, stated as magnesia, and ceramic. For example their 12k is a cream box with the identifying number K0705, cost $60 USD. Is this the Kuromaku spoken of here? The descriptor says they are not the export models. But they offer the full range up to the 30k version. Are these versions genuine, accurate or to be avoided.
I should say I did buy a full set of Naniwa superstones from them a year ago on stands and they were the real deal at top prices.
Yes, the cream box is indeed the 12k Shapton pro.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski
For your JNat needs, I’d recommend Maksim over at Japanese natural stones...
The Grey Shapton Glass is the HC or ‘high carbon’, not HR. I edited my post and apologize for the confusion.
Cheers, Steve
Thanks...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
I was looking for the unobtanium hone and stumbled on these.
I was having trouble taming the White shapton Glass hones. Just too darn sharp at 30K
I tried the 12K and it quickly gave me a nice sharp shaver so I was feeling flush and
tried the 8K and was very pleased.
In part there was a discussion where someone had a 4K/8K combo and the 4K half was
about finished. I started thinking about what single grit hone family I would begin to
backfill as each needed replacement and what single grit hone might best be the lone hone
or hone pair that a shaver can live with.
I think the 8K hone is under appreciated no matter the brand. The shave off this one was
better than I expected by a lot.
After playing with the new hone and the old ones.
It is a darn fine hone.
In the company of modern 8K hones from Japan it is an
equal among giants.
The number of strokes and the feel might differ but it
is an honest 8k hone and the hand of the person doing
the honing is more variable than the three modern 8k hones
in my kit.
Yes, even the 8K side of my Norton combo.
On the splash and go side of things... I now ignore
the soak and use running water.
I have been playing with honing under running water
and never let the hone develop a slurry. With all
my 8k and 12k hones a light hand and running water
the edge and polish is much improved.
Slurry and residue from a nagura can be less than valuable IMO
in the context of a smooth finish.
If you have a decent 8k you should be able to get a great 8k edge
from it by going back to basics.
If you do not have an 8k hone put this one on the list.
I recently acquired a 1.5k and a 5k Shapton kuromaku and like them very much. These followed by a coticule and a Welsh purple slate lead to a very nice edge for me. Still, I am curious about this synth line and don't have a lot of experience with synths as finishers. As I am jumping from 1.5k to 5k like this, I'm thinking to try the 12k kuromaku for starters, skipping the 8k. What do you all think about this? In essence, I think it would sort of be like going from the 5k straight to the Welsh purple slate, skipping the coticule, which I've never tried. I don't want to buy both right now, though. But I'm sure that if I were to buy the 8k first and liked it, then I would want the 12k afterwards, so why not risk the big jump to see if it works, sort of like 1.5k > 5k works in lieu of 1k > 2k > 5k?
The personal answer is your shave with your razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brontosaurus
Welsh slate and your face may be the best you can do.
My face and razors ... I am still hunting for a good shaver some DE blades get close
but with the swirls that my whiskers have any direction is against the grain and is less
than ideal.
A dirty strop (well used canvas with +6 month old 0.5micron diamond) works well to calm
the crazy sharp shapton glass edges I get. Latherin makes a lot of edges work well.
I have stopped playing with different shave soaps and concentrate on one for at least
a month of shaving. Running water on 8K and finer is making me smile.
It is a challenge... My 30 year old coticle is giving me better edges under running water too.
Well back to baseball. The game just tied up.... ;-)
I too have recently acquired the Shapton Pro 8k but I'm not so sure about it yet..(after 4/5 months)
I had been having great success with the Pro 2k for bevel then the Pro 5k (awesome stone) and a jnat finish. Looking to improve on that I put the Pro 8k in after the 5 and before the jnat. There's something about the feedback on the 8k that doesn't feel as satisfyingly smooth as the 5k and it seems to grind a little. The finish then after the jnat is similar having used the 8k in the progression but oddly not as smooth as going fro 5k to jnat. Is it me, or what's going on there guys? A faulty 8k perhaps? Pretty unusual for Shapton though. And what are your thoughts on the Shapton Pro 12k? Should I try that and sack the 8?
My honest opinion? I have the Shapton Pro 1, 2, 5, and 12K hones. If you're doing your job on the finishing stone, you should be getting the exact same results whether you use the 1.5K > 5K > 8K > Jnat or 1.5K > Jnat. With all my natural stones whether it's my Jnat, Arkansas stone, Welsh slate, PHIG or coticule I can use any given synthetic prior, it doesn't change the result because the work done on the natural erases the work done on the synthetics used prior to it. The only benefit to using a synthetic stone prior to a natural finisher is to get from point A (bevel set) to point B (finished edge) faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjo
I have my doubts the 8K is defective. Have you flattened it? I'd take off that first layer if you haven't already and smooth it out a bit. Other than that I can only assume you're doing something different with the 8K in the mix that's led to altered results. It might pay off to spend a little more time on the Jnat after the 8K than you have been. It also might be beneficial to strop and shave after the 8k. 8K is typically considered entry level for a comfortable shave, if you can't get a good comfortable shave off that level something is off somewhere and continuing on to a finishing stone isn't going to be fruitful.
As for the 12K, the edge is laser sharp, and can* be comfortable, but it's easy to push passed comfortable and into 'too sharp for my taste' territory. Best way I can describe it is 'too bitey' and more difficult to keep above the skin than I personally enjoy if you know what I mean. Not nearly as comfortable to shave from as a natural stone and if you're finishing with a natural stone I don't find it takes significantly less work going from 12K to natural versus my Norton 8k to a natural. That said, I do like the Shapton 12K enough that I've kept it. 'Too sharp' isn't always a bad thing, and it makes a good base when I feel like experimenting with super-fine pastes and the like.
The Pro's are very fast stones & you have to determine if the grinding sensation is the stone releasing grit or the razors edge crumbling. Maybe a thorough lapping of the 8k would be a good start.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjo
I used the 5k, 12k, Jnat progression for some years & it was fine. I later added the 8k & found it was just an extra step with another stone to clean up . The 12 k will do the job from 5k with just a bit more time spent, same as if you used the 8k in between.
The ‘gritty’ feeling of the 8k Pro is well documented among knife folks. I don’t think that means much usually. You might want to try the Shapton Glass HC (NOT the HR).
That's pretty good guys, thanks. Some pretty sensible suggestion there and I won't lay out for the 12 just yet. Although Marshal, I like the idea of "too bitey"... too sharp sounds most appealing :)
Thanks again
Well, that's why I say it isn't necessarily bad. Some guys prefer it. As witn all things straight shaving related YMMV.
When I first got into straights and honing I had made a comment saying I couldnt believe there was such a thing as too sharp or keen to shave with as i wanted a keen as possible. Than Outback sent me a razor to test and the stone he honed it on. It didnt matter how lightly i went with the shave, it was dangerously keen. Now Im not one to get weapers very often. Next to never really, but this edge showed me I was wrong when it came to the idea of too keen. After a couple thousand laps on the strop and 4 to 5 shaves it was safe enough to shave with.
So take it from me, there is such a thing as too much!
I'm in the same boat as far as keen as possible goes. I do not want a blade that I have to be careful with landing it on my face to start a stroke with and wind up getting a hairline weeper. Along with too keen usually comes harsh also.
I know my edges are not as keen as possible but they allow me a daily 4 pass shave with no discomfort which I can live with. I do not hone for others so that type of keen and smooth is just fine for me.
As Marshal said YMMV in all things shaving.
Bob
Yeah, the lines can blur as well. 8k is a good balance for me, lately I've been perfectly content to shave off a Swaty barber hone stropped with linen and leather. Nothing fancy to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasman
The 12k Pro is tricky. A handful of laps got me an edge that was perfectly comfortable by my standard, and very keen. But I learned I needed a much lighter touch, so you could say my ability to hone had outstripped my ability to shave. A few laps too many and the shave becomes harsh, requiring a few hundred laps on linen and leather to tame. An experiment with .25 micron CBN (equivalent of a 60k hone if I recall correctly) left me with a comfortable shave and almost the keenest edge I've ever experienced. Meanwhile CrOx typically feels harsh and I don't care for the stuff despite it not being as keen. It's hard to argue with the hundreds of shavers that use and enjoy it though. .1 micron FeOx (equivalent of an over 100K grit hone) really needed to be tamed, and I think the edge of the test razor wound up too thin and wore off leaving a fairly harsh shave after a bit.
At the moment, rather than chasing that blend of keen and comfortable, I've been chasing speed and comfort. Spending a half hour or more chasing that perfect edge every time a blade needs a tune up can be fun, but there's something to be said for noticing your blade needs a refresh, reaching into the shave cabinet for the barber hone, giving your razor 4 to 8 licks, and still knocking out your shave in 10 minutes or less.
I had three Nortons. Two were vented blue plastic cases and the OLD 4/8K combo did not have vents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal