Sharpening question

Hello gentlemen.. Newer member to forum and when greeted I was kindly told to ask lots of questions.. Since I have many I will spare everyone and only ask a few a week.. Today's is helping me get to that glorious razor edge of whiskers falling off the bone, hot knife thru butter, etc sharpness. I am pretty new to honing myself and have the Norton 4000/8000 and Naniwa d's 12000 stones. Before going farther I'll let you know the razors I'm working on have all been honed by either Brad at Laggards or JD Arman and have less than 15 complete shaves so bevel are good (thankfully).. Back to question. I seem to be able to get my razors quite sharable at about a #6 on sharpness scale of 0-10 but not any sharper.. The razor I'm on now is a second hand store Crown and Sword 2530 with this awesome scale that's a large antlered buck in the middle with green foliage top and bottom and Barbers Friend etched on blade face (anyone have one like this let me know as internet info came up empty).. Off subject, sorry.. So when my blade only gets to this sharpness where do I go back to trying to improve? Should I start over on the 4000 or more time on 8000/12000? Now when I bought my strop laggards said this one I don't need to use pastes or anything on fabric side so I've never used it before.. On my 10x loupe my edges seem to be pretty good but since I'm not an expert maybe I'm wrong on that?.. Anyone think I should try linen with chromium oxide or get back on the stones? I hear guys say it took them x amount of time to get blade at it's best but I'm not sure where I've maxed out at? Take this Crown for example.. I've spent hours on it with the 8000 and hours on the 12000 to my strop.. No better and didn't dull it up either.. Any suggestions greatly appreciated and sorry for lengthy post.. thanks,scott

Maggards not Laggards.. My fat thumbs!

Here is the secret to a really great edge. The magic happens on the low grit hones and then gets refined. The two sides need to meet and form a perfect apex from heel to toe. I would up the power on your loupe to 30x and read this thread.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ggestions.html

Very informative thread to read.. Pretty easy to see the things I'm not doing and need to do.. My Loupe is max 10x so time to order new one. Is 30x as high as I should need? Also I don't have a stone under the 4000, Is the Norton 1000 a preferred precursor to the 4000? I have a number of razors that do need bevel setting that I can't work on as they sit now... thank you RezDog

I set the bevel with 1000 before I go to the 4000. It can be done with higher stones but would require more time.

It seems the current top dog of bevel setters is the Chosera 1K. You can use others, but it seems most that have used many feel this is the best of them. The Norton 1K is certainly functional. I have both and prefer the Chosera. I have never had a higher loupe than 30X.

Sounds good... Off to look for a 30x loupe and 1000k stone. Thanks you guys and if anyone knows the way out of this rabbit hole I fell into let me know.. ��

Were your razors honed with tape? If so, that could be creating a bit of an issue. Not a big one mind you. See if they had tape on when honed it should have tape on there when touched up as I read it this is what you are trying to do. I'd find this out before continuing. If you are honing without tape and the previous guys used tape then eventually you will get to the edge but it will take a bit longer.

The rabbit hole can be very deep.
Ejmolitor37 has an interesting point.
It is actually fair
Y important for new honers to use tape. Once you can get through the bevel set without wearing out the tape you then get to the tape optional part of the skill set.
There have been a lot of new guys stuff a blade from no tape and too much spine pressure.
Going to a meet will up your game way faster and you will learn some very subtle aspects of honing.

I'll be honest and say I'm not sure about the tape.. The razors that I do feel comfortable putting on stones are a 3 month old Aust from Maggards, Year old Dovo also from Maggards and Heljstrand bought from recommended ebay dealer ryanrod that came with great hone.. This Crown I'm working on I used the 4000 side with Lynn's video showing me the way.. No tape and bevel looks to have come about pretty good but thin.. I was nervous about taking too much off on this thin of a blade..

The tape is about preserving the spine and the geometry of the razors.
Too much pressure on the spine wears the spine away much faster than the edge and it really quickly winds up off in geometry and appearance.

I am very looking forward to attending a meet.. I have Maggards set for their next one as it's only about 4hrs away.. It's not until June tho so about the only meet I see in the near future is the Northern Michigan winter meeting my fresh shaved cheeks.. Ughh

So I hope this translates well, Attachment 277696
This would be honed with tape. Edge clean and successful to the edge.
Attachment 277697
This would be the same edge honed without tape. The line in the middle shows the "new" bevel you would be cutting. This could explain why they are sharp but not what you expect. Hope this gives an understanding of what could be going on.

Thanks again for all the advice. Looks like I'll ease into the honing at slow steady speed, get a lower grit stone and rest of essentials and put the time in on some of these less expensive razors I keep pulling out of that damn hole.. Peace everyone and I'm quite sure I'll have a lot more questions..

Yep.. that diagram looks a lot like the edge on this Crown I did myself.. No tape. Should I reset this thin blade using tape on the 4000 again or would you suggest waiting for 1k stone and tape? Thnx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TCMichigander

Yep.. that diagram looks a lot like the edge on this Crown I did myself.. No tape. Should I reset this thin blade using tape on the 4000 again or would you suggest waiting for 1k stone and tape? Thnx

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You could certainly add a piece of tape and do the work on your 4k. You will perform x strokes until you have a clean surface clear to the edge. Check your progress as best you can. You will start to see the "new " bevel being removed and the progress being made :)

Good deal.. I will give that a go. If you guys don't mind after I reset this can I PM someone with pics of the edge? Or rather pay on the forum?

"Post on the forum"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TCMichigander

"Post on the forum"

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Which ever you prefer, post here or you can send them to myself or whom ever you are comfortable with. We are all here to help.

I like that.. You guys have been a huge help and I'll post some pics in the next few days for evaluation.. My wife is giving me that look (nope, not that one unfortunately) so going to shut it down for tonight.. Good night gents

If you're just doing touch ups you've got everything you need. Really the 1K only comes out when there are dings, chips, or other problems that require a new bevel to be cut. I haven't even pulled my 4K out of the stable in a good long time. Just to save yourself a bit of time in the experimentation phase, narrow it down to just the Norton 4/8. If you can't strop and shave comfortably at 8k, going any further is a waste of time. See here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

Also, you CAN shave at the 1K level. That said, if you can't shave with the edge you've made at 4K, then going on to 8K is a bit of a waste. Two more for you to check out:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html

%95 of honing is getting the bevel set. %3.5 is getting the blade around the 8K mark. By 12K you're at %99 and anything beyond is chasing that final %1. Aka, a unicorn. But it's an amusing hunt. Good luck, and have fun!