Beginner Hone Setup

Hi All,

I have been shaving with a straight razor for about 6 months now, and want to be able to maintain my edges without sending them out each time. I also want to get into maintaining the edges on my kitchen (victornix fibrox) and pocket knives (opniel) as well, so I have a few questions on what setup to get started on without breaking the bank. My current plan is to get a Shapton pro 12k and pasted strop to maintain the edges on my straight razor, a norton 220/1000 for sharpening my knives, and then a marble or granite slab with sandpaper to lap them. I don't plan on taking my straight razors from dull to shave ready, but instead plan to have a professional hone them, and then maintain them myself. Am I on the right track here? I am trying to keep the cost as low as possible, while still getting quality stones. If I enjoy it enough, I plan to expand my collection to something like a 4/8k norton in the future, but don't really see the need for it right now. My last question would be, as a beginner to honing, would refreshing a razor on a 12k be simple enough to learn on and not have to worry about ruining the blade?

Thanks for any and all help.

Yes you are

I have multiple customers that do exactly what you are saying

Most use either a Natural finisher or a Naniwa SS 12k but I see no reason a Shapton 12k won't work too

I rarely see the razor after an initial honing, once it is set up they can maintain them for years ..

Yup, your approach is text book. Get a pro like Glen ^^^ to set you up correctly then maintain with a finisher.
As mentioned many have the Naniwa 12k, the good thing with this is everyone that has one can help you if needed.

dont forget to make sure you can flatten hone. sandpaper on flat surface can do the trick. Some hones might already come flat though. I suggest naniwa 12k or jnat from reliable seller as touch up hone

I would advise shaving off of the Shapton 12k before purchasing that stone. Many people find the edges off of that stone to be harsh. Otherwise everything that you have said makes sense.

I'm 4 years into this and that's what I do. Naniwa 12k will give as good a shave as most once you have learned it, shave 10 times from a well honed blade, then take your razor up and down that Nani 4-6 ultra light laps, then strop and shave if not quite there do it again.

I still send my razors to Glen for any real work and so far I,m money ahead. Like he said after its honed it doesn't need to see him again for a couple of years. And 1 naniwa 12k is cheap. Tc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by relk19

Hi All,

I have been shaving with a straight razor for about 6 months now, and want to be able to maintain my edges without sending them out each time. I also want to get into maintaining the edges on my kitchen (victornix fibrox) and pocket knives (opniel) as well, so I have a few questions on what setup to get started on without breaking the bank. My current plan is to get a Shapton pro 12k and pasted strop to maintain the edges on my straight razor, a norton 220/1000 for sharpening my knives, and then a marble or granite slab with sandpaper to lap them. I don't plan on taking my straight razors from dull to shave ready, but instead plan to have a professional hone them, and then maintain them myself. Am I on the right track here? I am trying to keep the cost as low as possible, while still getting quality stones. If I enjoy it enough, I plan to expand my collection to something like a 4/8k norton in the future, but don't really see the need for it right now. My last question would be, as a beginner to honing, would refreshing a razor on a 12k be simple enough to learn on and not have to worry about ruining the blade?

Thanks for any and all help.

---

Welcome, as this is your first post. For starters, it would be helpful to know where you are located. Basically, you are seeking a honing set-up for razors, stainless-steel kitchen knives, and carbon or stainless-steel pocket knives, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluesman7

I would advise shaving off of the Shapton 12k before purchasing that stone. Many people find the edges off of that stone to be harsh. Otherwise everything that you have said makes sense.

---

It's a bit of a tricky stone. There's a sweet spot with it where it's as smooth and comfortable as you please. But it's also pretty easy to shoot passed that into over-worked territory and make the edge a bit nippy. On the bright side, a little bit of CrOx and a couple of shaves will take that bite off and make it nice and smooth again.

Just gotta remember less is more. Less pressure, fewer laps. :tu

Welcome to the forum, I would say that you are on the right track.

What you are suggesting is almost exactly what I do. I buy all of my razors shave ready and I just refresh them on a 12K when required.

The only differences in your suggested set up and mine are that I went with the Naniwa 12K which is a great stone, and my pasted strop is a paddle strop. I just figured that since it is flat it would be better. I don't know if that makes a difference or not but it works well for me.

It seemed like a big cost when I first bought the stone, but it has already paid for itself many times. In addition the fact that I can maintain my own edges gives me some enjoyment and a sense of satisfaction.

Good luck with this. Sorry I can't offer much help on the knives though.

If/when you decide to go further in your honing, for dull razors: That Norton 1000 can be the beginning of your razor honing - as a bevel setter. Your marble slab would allow you to use lapping film for honing in the mid range. And the 12k will be a good finisher.

I started with just lapping film, but didn't really like it for bevel setting or final finish.

If I were seeking to hone razors, kitchen knives, and pocket knives, all from the same set-up, and for a relatively small cost, I would be inclined to pick up an 8" x 2" soft/hard black Arkansas combo from Sharpening supplies for ~$75USD. You could either use their dedicated, food-safe honing oil or cold-pressed olive oil as a honing medium. Use the combo stone straight out of the box, don't bother lapping it. The black side will smooth over with continued use, but the soft Ark side should be continually refreshed with emery cloth to maintain some cutting power.

A synthetic water-stone alternative would be a King or Suehiro 1k/6k combo, followed by a pasted strop, either the T-I alox/diamond crayon or the red Solingen paste (tube or crayon). Cost there can range, but with the pasted stop added, it still should be ~$75USD. For starters, use w/d 320x sandpaper on glass to lap the stone as needed.

Note: I have downgraded the high-end in my recommendations as kitchen and pocket knives would also be sharpened, and in wanting to maintain a limited budget as mentioned. All the same, these should get you to decent shaving. The black hard Arkansas, once smoothed, is an excellent finisher, as is the T-I crayon or Solingen red stuff.

I have Naniwa 12k for occasional touch up, which is not needed often if I strop before/after each shave.

I did actually buy the Norton set with 220, 1000, 4000, 8000 and if I restore a razor or find a nick that needs smoothing out, I do a hone before using the 12k.

I did meet with a mentor who showed me all I need to know to hone, and it really is easier than you think.

But if the blade is already honed, a 12k of any sort should maintain that edge for a long time.

This I exactly what I want to learn to do. You took the words right out of my mouth, I'll be following this post, most definitely. Thanks.

I've actually been using the straight a bit less time than yourself, but your line of thinking is pretty much what I did. I have one coticule, and about every 7-8 shaves, do a half dozen very light laps on water, and sometimes will add a drop of soap to the equation, and do another dozen laps. Takes all of about a minute and a half. This, and good stropping is all you should need, unless you somehow damage your edge.

Oh the dilemma of "need" and "want"!

Want: I decided to go ahead and purchase 1k/5k/8k/12k at the beginning. I bought a few razors to learn how to hone from the bevel set to finish. I felt this would help my understanding of what it takes to hone a razor properly. ( I assume I am doing it properly as my shaves are great!) I then purchased a Suihero 20k to get the edge smoother and more comfortable, which works well for me)

Need: I guess I could have gotten by with only the 12k and or pasted strops (chromium oxide and iron oxide)

I find that I continue to buy razors just to put them on the stones as I really enjoy the honing process and shaving with an edge you put on yourself seems very satisfying!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robini

Oh the dilemma of "need" and "want"!

Want: I decided to go ahead and purchase 1k/5k/8k/12k at the beginning. I bought a few razors to learn how to hone from the bevel set to finish. I felt this would help my understanding of what it takes to hone a razor properly. ( I assume I am doing it properly as my shaves are great!) I then purchased a Suihero 20k to get the edge smoother and more comfortable, which works well for me)

Need: I guess I could have gotten by with only the 12k and or pasted strops (chromium oxide and iron oxide)

I find that I continue to buy razors just to put them on the stones as I really enjoy the honing process and shaving with an edge you put on yourself seems very satisfying!

---

Yep, need is one thing. Want is another. I kinda went the other way with it and amassed a collection of stones rather than razors. Truthfully unless I have a new to me razor, all I do is select a finishing hone and give any razor that isn't shaving right a few light laps to tweak the edge. Then I strop and enjoy the shave. The majority of my blades will never see a stone finer than 8K unless I'm honing the ol' Gold Dollar just to hone it.

I haven't had to put a razor to a stone in months now. Kinda hurts looking at that collection of fine razor stones currently going unused lol. Maybe I'll scour the usual gettin' place and treat myself to a 'gently used' vintage blade for Christmas so I have an excuse to break them out.

Quick question for someone experienced, is the Naniwa (Specialty Stone) #12000 the same thing as the Naniwa (Super Stone) #12000? I am seeing 2 different ones on Amazon, one box is white and grey, the other box is yellow, just want to make sure I bought the right one!!

Super stones is the old version, and it's a thicker chunk, specialty is the new version and thinner to make it cheaper. Tc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Super stones is the old version, and it's a thicker chunk, specialty is the new version and thinner to make it cheaper. Tc

---

Also new in othwer ways if I understand corectly. It should be a better stone. Thats what I heared. I have not tried honing at all xD.

Atm I send out my razors to professionals to get em honed. Will probably continue that for a while. But I imagine it sometimes would be nice to have a finer stone to touch up those blades alittle bit.
Would love to go for a whole set from bevelsetting to a nice finnisher. But thats what I want. And not nesecerely what I would use. Soo before emptying my pockets on a set of stones I might try to go for a 12k stone. Like Naniwa. Will defenetly follow this thread to see what others say. But its a good start I guess to start with one "high" grit stone to learn the touchup before getting em all! ;)

General word is that they reformulated them. Folks that have hands on both report that they function the same, so better is perhaps subjective. Personally I'd rather have the old thicker stones, but I suppose most folks - myself included - would be hard pressed to wear through a thin 12k in their lifetime. So it's still well worth the money.

Generally speaking the best advice I've seen is start with a finishing stone and quality strop. Send your razor out to be pro honed, then just maintain it from there. Add in lower grit hones as needed if/when your finisher stops getting the job done.

The number of times I've seen the good advice heeded...? Maybe twice lol. But it's all in good fun, since this is a hobby and the only shaves anyone is ruining are their own.

I see several references to Glen for having razors honed. Just wondering what his user name is.

Thanks

Ray

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wmrayt

I see several references to Glen for having razors honed. Just wondering what his user name is.

Thanks

Ray

---

Hey man, my name is Kevin. To answer your question, his username is gssixgun, his name is Glen. He's a great person to ask questions. But more importantly he will hone your razor professionally, if you want to know what a perfectly honed razor looks and feels like, shoot him a message. Hopefully this helps you out.

Kkeeton53

Thank you

So.....I just bought this as my razor wasn't taking anything off! After a few laps and a strop it seems ok but I feel some parts are sharper than others, thoughts? https://www.shavershop.com.au/wahl/h...rs-cut-throats

if it wasn't taking anything off it's a safe bet it needs to be touched up. All points along the edge should be equally sharp. What your blade probably needs is some attention on a stone, not just a good stropping.

Sorry should have mentioned, the attached link is what im using. It has a stone on one side and leather on other. Cant help thinking i should have paid the extra and bought a ceramic.
Attachment 280001

Didn't see that there was a stone on the back. Still, not removing anything tells me that blade probably needs more honing than one could reasonably do on a finishing stone. Does it say anywhere what stone that is? May have overlooked it, but I didn't see anything in the link denoting just what that is, so it's hard to say whether it's viable for razor use and to what extent.

My suggestion is send it out for a pro touch up. If you don't want to do that, then I suggest getting either a Naniwa 3/8, Norton 4/8, or maybe a King 1/6k combination stone to practice honing with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazpope

So.....I just bought this as my razor wasn't taking anything off! After a few laps and a strop it seems ok but I feel some parts are sharper than others, thoughts? https://www.shavershop.com.au/wahl/h...rs-cut-throats

---

I hope the AU dollar is a lot weaker than USD, 'cause that looks like a pricey strop. In any case, it seems similar or identical to a certain stone/strop paddle coming out of Solingen. The latter appears to have a fairly unifiorm MST "Thuringian" stone on one side and cowhide on the other. The stone side is intended for routine touch-ups or edge maintenance rather than creating or restoring an edge. Keep working with your paddle stone to see if that helps; but if further work is needed, a King 1k/6k combo as mentioned above followed by the stone on your paddle should get you there.

I have a general question. I just received my starter kit from Norton and want to know if I should use tape on every razor. I have just three. One old antique and one used and one new. Should I use tape? Each have different spine ware. Thanks ahead of time.

Tape will reduce the spine wear while learning the honing skills. I would recommend it.

I watched a honemeister use tape on all but one then figured he should. So he then added tape. I'm going with your advise and use tape. Thank you.

Do i use the paddle stone with the blade like stropping or against like honing/restoring? ...and does it need to be wet?
Thanks for advice so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazpope

Do i use the paddle stone with the blade like stropping or against like honing/restoring? ...and does it need to be wet?
Thanks for advice so far.

---

It's a hone, I image it ought to be used like one. Edge leading strokes, opposite of what you would do for stropping is my recommendation. It should probably be wetted, but water is likely not a good choice. Might seep into the leather and worst case start to mold it or peel it up off the paddle as it wrinkles. Maybe a nice leather friendly oil like Ballistol? That's probably the route I would go with it. In either case I would do everything in my power to keep whatever I used for honing off the strop, even with Ballistol you can have too much of a good thing.

Might be worthwhile to tape the strop off before doing any touchups with the stone on the back, once you've got the hang of it you'll be using the strop far more than the stone anyway. Maybe every 20 shaves or so with good stropping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazpope

Do i use the paddle stone with the blade like stropping or against like honing/restoring? ...and does it need to be wet?
Thanks for advice so far.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marshal

It's a hone, I image it ought to be used like one. Edge leading strokes, opposite of what you would do for stropping is my recommendation. It should probably be wetted, but water is likely not a good choice. Might seep into the leather and worst case start to mold it or peel it up off the paddle as it wrinkles. Maybe a nice leather friendly oil like Ballistol? That's probably the route I would go with it. In either case I would do everything in my power to keep whatever I used for honing off the strop, even with Ballistol you can have too much of a good thing.

Might be worthwhile to tape the strop off before doing any touchups with the stone on the back, once you've got the hang of it you'll be using the strop far more than the stone anyway. Maybe every 20 shaves or so with good stropping.

---

I have to say that the style of paddle in question has left me puzzled as to use. I discussed it with a dealer of an almost identical Boeker stone/leather paddle version a few years back, and he and I both concluded that using the stone with water would eventually be to the leather's detriment. From this, I'm inclined to think it should be used dry. Perhaps lap it to around 600x to smooth the surface and then treat it like a barber's hone. Just a handful of touch-up laps for starters, perhaps even spine-leading in the interests of caution. It follows the format of the pasted Solingen paddles, which are all used spine-leading. Less is probably more.

Thanks for the reply. Ive given it a go already using water and like you said it stained the leather so i stopped. Ill give it a go dry or maybe even lightly oil it with ballistol as mentioned previous.

Late in the conversation, but were you honing the blade wet then going straight to the strop? I always wipe the blade off to dry it and remove any possible sediment from the stone on the blade before stropping.
Except for actual leather conditioner I wouldn't want anything else getting in the strop.

Never too late for advice! So, in short I dropped it a while back and took a small chip (tiny) on the blade. Used a 1k/3k stone, dried the blade then stropped on paste then leather. I also have the aforementioned paddle leather slate strop, Im told the slate is equivalent to 30k. Just wondering the best way to use it really.

30k is a gross overestimation I would think. I've got somewhere along the lines of 20 naturals between Welsh slates, Chinese hones, Arkansas stones, a coticule and a Jnat. The best of the bunch might be 12K, most are more along the lines of 8-10K. And I hesitate to grit rate them at all because they're natural stones so it doesn't really apply. When a synthetic stone is grit rated, it's because to the best of their ability the manufacturer has crafted the stone out of particulate matter so the stone is homogenous front to back, and when it auto slurries (as most of our water hones do) that is the size of honing particulate that is released.

A good many natural stones either auto slurry little, or none at all. And they're formed in the wild with no control over uniformity or what goes into the mix. You may find hard spots, soft spots, toxic inclusions, benign inclusions, and variance from one stone to the next. My Yellow Lake Welsh slate may or may not be the same as someone else's Yellow Lake Welsh slate.

Not that pontificating on naturals and grit ratings helps any. But I really don't have any new suggestions to add. If it is indeed slate, that does help some and I would use it the same as I do Welsh stones. Which I more or less outlined above already. From there it's just a matter of spending time with the stones you have, learning to squeeze the best edge you can from them.

:tu