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Good afternoon everyone
I’d like to ask a quick question for doing basic touchups.
I am going to purchase a Naniwa 12000 grit specialty stone for doing basic touchups on my razors. I would like to know if the Norton flattening stone for water stones wood work to flatten this 12,000 grit specialty stone.
Thanks Roger
The Naniwa is a good choice. As far as flattening it goes, buy the DMT 325 (coarse) also spend the extra $18 ea. and get two of the universal stone holder. Straight Razor Design has both at a very competitive price and quick shipping.
The Naniwa 12K Specialty Stone is a common finishing/refreshing stone for many shavers. Formerly, the Specialty Stone (3/8") and the thicker (3/4") Sharpening Stones were called SuperStones, so you will see SuperStone references frequently on this forum. Later, you may find you prefer natural stones for finishing, but the Naniwa 12K is a good place to start because it is consistent.
As for lapping, there are multiple choices. You can get a Naniwa or Norton flattening stone. You can get a DMT or Atoma diamond hone. Or if you want to save money, you can use Silicon carbide wet/dry sandpaper backed by a flat piece of granite that you can generally find at big box hardware store. There are two nice things about the sandpaper: it is available in a variety of grits and it is cheap enough to throw away when it is worn out.
When I first purchased my Naniwa hones, I purchased one of their lapping plates as well; but I never really liked it. If I have a stone that needs a lot of lapping, I will start with SiC paper and finish with an Atoma 1200. For stones that need only minor removal of material, the Atoma works well by itself.
Whichever method you choose for lapping, use plenty of water for lubrication and washing away the debris generated in the lapping process.
You can* use the Norton lapping plate, BUT the thing about them is...you have to flatten the lapping stone first before you can use it. And you have to keep the lapping stone flat with fairly regular lapping as well.
Sand paper on a reasonably flat backer will work. I used an old cookie tin and sand paper for a while. This is A-OK if all you do is the occasional touch up with your Naniwa 12K. However, if the honing bug bites you, you might end up like me - the local auto parts store knew me by name for how much of their 3M sand paper I was rifling through.
At that point, you're money ahead to do as Cuda suggested and buy the DMT. Needs a little bit of break in so it ain't so rough, scrub it lightly with a chisel for a few hundred laps to knock off the loose/tall diamonds. Comes dead flat, never needs re-flattening, and lasts a lot longer than sand paper. I've also seen the Chef Knives to Go 400/1000 diamond plate recommended often. It's got a lower price tag than the DMT, and as a bonus has 2 sides instead of just the 1.
Another lapping option is the Double Time lapping stone:
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/D...P1545C282.aspx
The 325 must be relieved of the high diamonds before use as a flattener/maintainer for the Naniwa 12k or any hone, for that matter.
Lots of threads here on that. Screwdriver shaft comes to mind! :D
You might do better. Might. I think it will do! ;)
OK I am thinking about doing the sandpaper idea. What grit wet dry sandpaper should I get.
Thanks Roger
Good quality 400 grit wet & dry, tape the corners with some masking tape to a marble food prep slab the ones you can buy from any retail outlet, plenty of water and away you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by k5MOW
I use 320. I glue it down and use it for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by k5MOW
Wet\dry sandpaper on a piece of tile, glass or even a flat counter top will work since your not going to need to flatten the stone to much. Wetting the back of the sandpaper will hold it in place, but I've used double sided tape on the two long edges to hold it. The Naniwa stones are pretty easy to lap. The DMT can be expensive for occasional use, but if you start getting into bevel setting and that the diamond plates are invaluable. My Norton lapping stone sits on a shelf collecting dust since it takes more effort keeping it flat than it does to other stones.
I think you would run into the same problem with that as the Norton plate. It may* come dead flat - at first. Not saying they're lying. Honestly the Norton plates are usually 'flat enough' out of the box, but better after break in (isn't everything?). But I'd wager it wouldn't stay that way long, and it will need flattening eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulKidd
With all due respect to everyone who has chimed in on the OP's question. I've used the Wet and Dry Sandpaper and while it will work, the DMT is a better tool and one that will be working for years to come.Quote:
Originally Posted by k5MOW
Here's what's involved with lapping a Norton hone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c4hqYwUNl4&t=22s
If the sandpaper is used be sure to pick up a piece of 1/4" glass that's about 12"x12" or a marble piece from Home Depot or another such supplier.
Regardless of which way you go, I do hope you don't have bursitis in your arm :w
I'm with Cuda. When I was researching and finally decided on getting a series of SS for honing, I got the recommendation for a DMT 325 and am glad I got it. Unfortunately, I didn't get the advice about knocking down the highspots with a screw driver shank, so I put in some initial scratches that scared the crap out of me--those problems have since been remedied. Also, if you have any inclination toward working with vintage razors (chip removal, bevel setting, blade correction), and the DMT will be a friend in time of need. Also there is the cost to benefit ratio: overtime, you're going to get more bang for the buck with the DMT. Another benefit to the DMT is that you can use it raise a quick slurry when honing. I'd imagine that the sandpaper would set up would be a little more awkward for that. Either way, you'll have fun and like the 12K SS!
One more question on the 12,000 grit specialty stone. Do they need flatting right out of the box? Do they come flat?
Roger
They do need to be lapped a bit out of the box, even if they are flat the surface needs some conditioning.Quote:
Originally Posted by k5MOW
This. Every hone I have has needed some degree of flattening. Norton, Shapton, Naniwa, I think the one exception were the Welsh slates I got from AJ. He had them pretty well flat and I only needed to condition one side.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
I didn't try the Naniwa or Shapton surfaces to see if they had a similar skim coat of material to Norton hones that needs be done away with to get to the good stuff, but I assume they're better after a little prep and break in. I find that's the case in most every aspect of razor honing. The prep work and break in are the foundations of success.
Thank you all very much for the info. I lapped The specialty stone with 400 grit sandpaper and a piece of glass. Worked great.
Thank you all very much for the info. I lapped The specialty stone with 400 grit sandpaper and a piece of glass. Worked great.
Roger
As a newb, I've read a lot of threads. However, there's on thing, that still confuses the hell out of me, which is "Bevel setting". I saw several videos and pictures, showing all the names for all the parts of a straight razor. FYI, English is my second language. Does "Bevel" refer to the sharp edge of the razor blade, or what?
Maybe this will help a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neunerball
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-you-leap.html
Does it make sense, to get a 15000 grid stone as well?
What grid of stones would you recommend, in order to get a cheap razor to shave ready?
Personally I have and will continue to maintain that until you can get a CCC shave (Clean-Close-Comfortable) shave off of an 8K hone your pouring money down a rat hole by buying a finer grit hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neunerball
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I were to drop and break my Naniwa 12, or any of my other finishing hones and didn't have the funds to replace them I could live off of my Norton 8K edge for the rest of my life. However if I were to drop and break that Norton--I'd eat peanut butter sandwiches 3 times a day while I saved up the funds for a new one. And that the truth!
Hey, glad you are here on the forums. The bevel in knife terms, as well as razor terms, refers to the angle of the polished edge of your razor, which is formed by the angle between the outer edge of your spine and the tip of the edge of your razor, or more technically, the side of the edge of your razor, since the side of the edge follows that line formed by the spine and the edge of your razor, when you lay it flat on a stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neunerball
Exactly this! I've gotten stellar shaves off of that Norton 8k; I don't know if it makes any difference that I have one of the old/good ones that are supposed to be superior to later ones produced overseas. Roy and many others of us consider that (or its Naniwa equivalent, which has kind of eclipsed it in popularity on the forums as many consider it a better hone) to be the benchmark. "Do not pass go" with all of the fancy higher-grit synthetics or exotic naturals until you can nail it consistently on the 8. Heck, for that matter, I've gotten some incredible shaves off of just my Chosera 1k after maxing it out and following up with some judicious stropping. It's all just hobbyist-level obsessing beyond a certain point (but isn't that part of the fun?!).Quote:
Originally Posted by cudarunner
Having said all of this, my current go-to finish is generally a Naniwa 12 followed by some work on an Arkansas progression on WD-40, then sealing the deal with a progression on my vintage shell strops.