Unusual Vintage Sharpening Stone ID

So I accidentally bought this stone on the bay. Not sure what it is. Very hard and puts a nice edge on a knife with slurry. Didn’t look or feel like oil was used, but the box and stone have a slight smell. So I will do a simple green soak. It cleaned up well and has su and greenish grey brown slurry.

It was suggested it could be a glanrafon Welsh slate, which there was one labeled on the bay that sold. It looked a bit different than this one though. Only real info I can find on them is about the mine though which closed in 1915. Couldn’t find any other pics of them either.
Let me know what you think and if you have any pics of a glanrafon like this or if it is something else.

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beautiful stone! would that be a finisher?

Nice looking rock you got there! I dont know anything about them but its a looker!

Honestly I don’t know but I really want to blurt out coticule.

I originally thought coticule, but then changed my mind after looking at the pictures for a bit. Still not 100% sure it isn't, but never saw a coti with su either. If it is a coti it is some old long lost forgotten layer i have never seen, still I have a strange unknown coti layer so it is possible too.

I want to say Coticule as well, but I'm not at all sure. VERY cool stone!!!

The more I mess with this stone the more it seems like a coticule in feel, slurry and looks. Everything I find about the glanrafon tells me it was just a quarry not a stone type. The one previously seen with the label from the bay was not a good label to tell anything. I found a fully intact labeled one and it is a Charnley Forest stone.

Attachment 280952

Looks like the stones we have discussed as so-called Fiddish River Hone stone here in the Forum a few years ago.
Here are two links to the old threads:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ned-stone.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...id-please.html

Best regards and have all a Merry Christmas!

Peter

It's a Welsh stone Glanrafon is an old slate quarry in Wales, It's no longer a working quarry closed in 1915.

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It could also be another Welsh stone a llyn idwal hone?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...H-wKBo#imgrc=_

I found the same stuff on glanrafon but it is a quarry not a stone type. Obviously they also had Charnley Forest stones. I can't find others that look like this. So not really sure if it is a stone from that quarry or the Fiddish River stone a coticule or something else.

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Originally Posted by rideon66

So I accidentally bought this stone on the bay. Not sure what it is. Very hard and puts a nice edge on a knife with slurry. Didn’t look or feel like oil was used, but the box and stone have a slight smell. So I will do a simple green soak. It cleaned up well and has su and greenish grey brown slurry.
....

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Perhaps the place to start is with some norton water based honing solution and see how it hones.

Any steel previously polished on a known modern hone will let you see the scratches.
Perhaps polished with a Naniwa 8K Snow White for example (any 8K will do).

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

It could also be another Welsh stone a llyn idwal hone?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...H-wKBo#imgrc=_

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I was under the impression the llyn idwal were more like a Charnley Forest stone and this doesn't seem quite like that more like a hard coti/thuri feel to it.

So both Peter and Sebastian have given me the info I was looking for and I believe this is a Fiddish River Stone. Seems there is no real documentation of these just a made up term for this stone at sometime. It should be a fine finisher though and that is the end game here and who knows with the lost history of a greenish stone with green slurry for cutlers.:D

So the Charley Forest stone from the glanrafon quarry is starting to bother my mind. So how does one come from Wales. I think this may have been a llyn idwal, but I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by rideon66

The more I mess with this stone the more it seems like a coticule in feel, slurry and looks. Everything I find about the glanrafon tells me it was just a quarry not a stone type. The one previously seen with the label from the bay was not a good label to tell anything. I found a fully intact labeled one and it is a Charnley Forest stone.

Attachment 280952

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Interesting, does remind me a bit like the Franconian Stones, just from the Cut the Stone Shows.
Would be cool to compare a labelled one to a Bavarian Frankonian Stone.....

@Hatzicho: did you see the cut of that example Peter ? I dont trust the those vintage "warranted genuine wordings".....

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Originally Posted by rideon66

So both Peter and Sebastian have given me the info I was looking for and I believe this is a Fiddish River Stone. Seems there is no real documentation of these just a made up term for this stone at sometime. It should be a fine finisher though and that is the end game here and who knows with the lost history of a greenish stone with green slurry for cutlers.:D

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Here is the one i own, those are real beauties, Fiddish River is only the term it is known as. Till today there is no proof...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5457/3...c44a5c_c_d.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5329/3...7746d1_c_d.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5600/3...717385_c_d.jpg

Haha ist a greeneeeee, always thought "Cutlers Green" would sound great for such a Stone :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by doorsch

Here is the one i own, those are real beauties, Fiddish River is only the term it is known as. Till today there is no proof...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5457/3...c44a5c_c_d.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5329/3...7746d1_c_d.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5600/3...717385_c_d.jpg

Haha ist a greeneeeee, always thought "Cutlers Green" would sound great for such a Stone :rofl2:

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Beautiful stone.
That is what my slurry looks like. It is a joy to hone on and the shaves are just superb. Sometimes accidental purchases are great and fun learning too. Here is some info I found about the Fiddich River Stone.


I did find a reference to hones or whetstones are obtained near Balvenie, on the Fiddich. 1868 Abbas Combe to Eyworth. & a reference to the same stating it had sufficient supply for the whole of ifland . 1803 The Gazetteer of Scotland Also in a later reference it states laminated marble found in the bed of the Fiddich, is formed into whetstones and hones.1901

I recently saw what was listed as a llyn idwal that sold as a bin I was going to buy but just before I could it sold that I was wondering if it was a Frankonian stone. Heavily spotted and looked similar to me.

Also found it interesting that the labeled said Charley Forest stone not Charnley.

I picked this Fiddich River up some months ago. Said to have been purchased many years ago from a barber during a trip to England. It was mounted in wood and had a broken corner. Very friendly edges but not the keenest, it's been a joy to use and shave off of.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...eb421047_z.jpg

Very friendly edges but not the keenest, it's been a joy to use and shave off of.

How are you using the stone? What grit are you pre-finishing to.

Beautiful stone. I'd love to see one in person.

Try using the stone with a very fine slurry once you have a good edge, then try using the stone with just water and/or oil, Smith’s or Ballistol to refine an edge, also try varying your pressure.

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Originally Posted by Desrtrat

I picked this Fiddich River up some months ago. Said to have been purchased many years ago from a barber during a trip to England. It was mounted in wood and had a broken corner. Very friendly edges but not the keenest, it's been a joy to use and shave off of.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...eb421047_z.jpg

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So I can not fully tell from a pic as it has more to do with hardness and feel of the stone. Though from your assessment of the edge and looks I would guess this maybe the harder Glanrafon from Wales which I believe were sold as Charley Forest stones. I have two of them. I also have two of the Fiddich River Stone from Scotland which are much softer like a hard coticule or thuringian or even a jnat. The edges are a finer off these, but both are very friendly shaves.

I also have one of the black and red stones from the link thread Neil speaks of being the upper layer Fiddich. Much softer stone edges lot like a coticule .

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Originally Posted by rideon66

So I can not fully tell from a pic as it has more to do with hardness and feel of the stone. Though from your assessment of the edge and looks I would guess this maybe the harder Glanrafon from Wales which I believe were sold as Charley Forest stones. I have two of them. I also have two of the Fiddich River Stone from Scotland which are much softer like a hard coticule or thuringian or even a jnat. The edges are a finer off these, but both are very friendly shaves.

I also have one of the black and red stones from the link thread Neil speaks of being the upper layer Fiddich. Much softer stone edges lot like a coticule .

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I have been wondering about the identification also.
It's harder than my coticules and softer than my Thuringian or JNATS. The feed back is not buttery smooth, it very much reminds me of finishing concrete with a steel trowel. My intuition says it should be a coarser stone than it actually is.

Hard to say looks Charnley like, I am not familiar with the Fiddich River stones.

As for performance, the unknown grit in the stone and how it is manipulated with technique determine performance.

There are a couple post on B&B with some good photos, but doubt they will help much as the stones look similar and none all that similar to yours.

Without a stone being marked, it is impossible to say. To me all that matters is performance.

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Originally Posted by Desrtrat

I have been wondering about the identification also.
It's harder than my coticules and softer than my Thuringian or JNATS. The feed back is not buttery smooth, it very much reminds me of finishing concrete with a steel trowel. My intuition says it should be a coarser stone than it actually is.

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Yes your description sounds more like the Glanrafon from Wales even though it is labeled Charley Forest Not Charnley forest it is a different type of stone than the normal Charnley Forest stone. I believe it is a slate but feels different. I would say mine remind me of my synthetic Shapton 1.5K in density and feel, but much much finer and gives a nice shave. If done right though the edge does remind me of a nice Charnley forest edge, but like a Charnley Forest it takes a lot of laps.

I have a Coti that looks somewhat similar.

Attachment 324697
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Very hard, and dense. Took quite awhile to lap it flat, with 80 grt. Honed up a razor on it last night, the shave was very close to what I get from my B/G barbers gem.

Outback that coti is a stunner. Simply gorgeous. The manganese is like art work. Glad it is really hard you don't want to lap much more on her.

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Originally Posted by rideon66

Yes your description sounds more like the Glanrafon from Wales even though it is labeled Charley Forest Not Charnley forest it is a different type of stone than the normal Charnley Forest stone. I believe it is a slate but feels different. I would say mine remind me of my synthetic Shapton 1.5K in density and feel, but much much finer and gives a nice shave. If done right though the edge does remind me of a nice Charnley forest edge, but like a Charnley Forest it takes a lot of laps.

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They for sure are not fast. You had it figured from the start too, impressive.
Thank you for your help!