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Good day gents. I just got a hold of this 4x2 Genuine Old Rock Extra Extra Coticule. I’ve seen some pictures of these before but I’m not familiar with them and the general performance characteristics. Anyone have any experience?
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basically you hit the coticule jackpot. Also looks like you got a "extra extra" fine one. Since it has not been lapped you could get a very very shiny penny for it from a collector and get another coticule for 1/4 of a very very shiny penny. Would be my guess though that the finishing of that coticule would be top of the line.
Quick Edit: You could probably find a coticule collector on this site willing to trade an excellent finishing coticule and $$ for that but I would suggest researching and asking friends
Hello Christian! delighted to see you in possession of this coticule !! beware it is a mention "old rocks" does not mean that it is the best of the walk .... it is indeed an appellation. however, they are very much in demand and I still do not know why. very good buy felicitation
I've got one that is virtually identical with the same stamps and that box, though I don't think mine has the label. It is a very good coticule but I have some that I like better as finishers. They are fine and on the slow end of cutting speed so it is not one for setting bevels.
Have fun with it.
Yes exactly cas you @Utopian . Well
I have now used the stone a few times and have some general first impressions. The stone is very fast, even on water. With slurry, during dilucot, darkening begins very quickly. It is also extremely fine and produces an excellent, smooth edge pretty quickly. I’ve been very happy with my shaves so far off of this stone. I’ve been finishing under running water and have been very impressed with the level of polish left on the bevel.
Overall, I’m certainly happy with the initial performance of the stone.
Same here. Very good stone. Borderline great but I had 'great' coticules to measure against and mine wasn't 'great'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Great example, I really love this old rock hones.
Basically from the meaning of label and box it is somewhat comparable to Thuringian Escher hones. Escher labelled hones are also simply thuringians, coming from the same quarries than unlabeled hones. But in the good times, when these hones were mined and sold in thousands, the label was a certain quality sign and only really good hones have been labelled (in later times that changed a bit - but labelled old rocks hones are rare and seldom).
Old rock was much more thatn a mine underneath Chateau Salm in Belgium, it was also a company name and a layer name, and the company sold other hones under this name. But for this labelled extra-extra quality the chance is high, that it is really an old rock layer (which is similar to LaVeinette nowadays) coming from the old rock mine.
So have fun with the stone. It is a perfect collectors item.
To add a really important Note here, this is a SRD Coticule. It was sold from SRD....
Severin Robert Droescher kept the Trademark rights for the "Genuine Old Rock" Typo. The Tradmark was registered as
243.788 as Class 4 Abrasive Detergent and Polishing Materials. Filed at 19th April 1926 as Serial No. 230.387
Thank you for the information. How are you able to tell that this is one of the coticules labeled as an Old Rock and sold by SRD? I have an SRD coticule also and that had a clear SRD stamp on it. This stone has the old rock crest as a stamp on the stone. There wasn’t a mention of Droescher anywhere on the stone or the box.Quote:
Originally Posted by doorsch
Matt as mentioned it was a copy righted Trademark. The typo „Genuine Old Rock“ is the exact typo listed in the trademark catalogue. Iam quite sure this is no stolen Logo which was used. SRD was a also a wholeseller for stones and in this case my theory is that this one was produced especially for the sellerQuote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
Iam still not completely thru those stones, they appear with different Signatures in Red in this case „Jaques...“ the one Henk showed in his Grinding and Honing Part 4 showed another red signature. As we know Old Rock was not only a company it was a layer too...
So it could be that those Coticules have been bought from Severin Robert Droescher (SRD) but he didnt appeared with his Name here. An idea is that the signatures could be the „sellers“ from Belgium which appeared with their names here. As said its a guess i have to evaluate the theory...probably the signatures are just phantasy names who knows. But in this case if there is a belgium company selling Coticules in the past with the Name Jaques... this could be a proof of this theory then
From
Probably i directly got it cleared. There was a company selling belgium razor hones. The company was named Jaques & Co. this looks exactly like the signature. So as said they sold to SRD, SRD imported to US labelled the stones under their Trademark „Genuine Old Rock“ and added the belgium Origin adding the signature behind the instructions...for me a logical theory. Looking forward to research the history of the Jaques in Vielsam
https://books.google.de/books?id=sEJ...taBfwQ6AEIJDAA
https://books.google.de/books?id=65I...ticule&f=false
Thank you very much for this info! I always appreciate knowing more about the stones and razors that I have. I do know that both this and the stamped Droescher coticule that I have are excellent finishing stones and hones in general. I would definitely be interested in figuring out the exactl history of the Old Rock company and hones.
On another note, how does the “Old Peru” quarry fit into the equation? It’s my understanding that “Peru” in this instance may be a slang term or abbreviation for rock in French.
Where is the old Peru Quarry written ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
Here is another one shown with the typo: S.R. Droescher in red
https://straightrazorpalace.com/hone...coticules.html
It’s not written anywhere associated with the Old Rock hones. I was just thinking that if the old rock stones were both a brand name and a vein that the quarry could be associated as well because of the name. I could be totally wrong though. Just a theory I came up with.
By the way the Salm Rock shown under the label you linked to is amazing! My next stone to hunt.
The Old Rock you show in the pictures was sold by E. Morris Company in Detroit, as written on the cardbox. E. Morris was to that time one of 5 companies in the US who trades coticules from the Old Rock Mine. 4 of them had been located in New York - one of them was SRD - and E. Morris in Detroit.
Owner of the Old Rock mine at this time was Gustave Jacques or his son, therefore the sign Jacques & Fils as written in red on the label. Gustave Jacqes took over the old rock mine in 1874 from the Lamberty family. After world war I the Offergeld family owns the quarry - with interuptions untill today. The Offergeld family also still owns all rights on the name "Old rock".
Regards Peter
Thanks Peter for more details, whats youre thought on SRD here?Quote:
Originally Posted by hatzicho
As mentioned the Genuine Old Rock Trademark was registered from SRD and not from Morris, so either they used it by permission or they have been stocked from SRD.
Sebastian,
I think that SRD has taken over this label later and registered a trademark. I have never seen SRD boxed or labelled Old Rock coticules yet. All I have seen have this typical Morris boxes, I own two of them. But Jimmy once posted a label with a signature that is not Jacques and, if I read it correct, it might be Droescher, but not sure. Here is an old thread where Jimmy posted a picture:
https://straightrazorpalace.com/hone...w-equal-2.html
Regards Peter
Peter,
Thanks for the info. I always appreciate knowing about the history of my equipment. I love the hone and use it quite a bit. Very nice hone with great feedback and excellent results. I’ll be shaving with a Lunawerk razor with a Old Rock and Barbers Delight edge on it. I expect an awesome shave.
Now the only other coticule on my list to find is a Salm rock. If anyone has one they’d like to trade I’d love to talk about it! Haha.
Thanks again!
Yes its definately SR Droescher typo so thats my connection to this. And as mentioned the trademark was registered in the 1920ies....Quote:
Originally Posted by hatzicho
A visit of the Americans (Droescher) at Jacques is documented as far i could check
http://vielsalm.blogspot.de/2009/12/...-juin.html?m=1
