kasumi question

once i start working up a kasumi edge, i find it difficult to see refinement under magnification. synthetic is easy to watch the previous stones scratches be removed, but with jnats/nagura i eventually reach a 'limit' in what i can see. i definitely see the kasumi get tighter and cleaner but eventually i reach a limit on what i can 'see'. even after using a number of finishing stones/nagura. purhaps the edge gets softer/brighter but i cant tell for sure any more. and i dont know if the next nagura is actually improving the edge, or walking it back.

besides the obvious - shaving - is there any other way to tell if an edge is being improved?

The way I tell is by how dark the slurry becomes, then you judge how much metal has been removed kinda.

Constant practice solves all issues :)

You can certainly see synth scratches if the angle of the light is right. If you're doing several jnats, the edge generally get more polished as it gets finer. And yes, you can test with HHT.

Cheers, Steve

no matter how fine the finishing stones i use, my kasumi still looks evenly and lightly speckled under magnification. never a full, uniform gray. is this correct?

just want to also say that my shaves are very enjoyable. very sharp edge but also just a little forgiving. second or third passes are just for touch ups and the enjoyment/ritual of the shave itself.

just wondering how to tell if im still improving the edge, accidentally taking it back a notch, or just wasting time over honing.

Sloan

When using a Jnat the kasumi finish is a desired aspect of the product, but, it is not an indicator of the keenness of the blade, just like a mirror finish is not an indicator of keenness, these surface treatments are only skin deep. The actual state of keenness is found in the foundation work, this is the key here, having both sides of the razor meet neatly forming a perfect V shape is the key and proof and this needs to be completed by the bevel set stone and advanced by the the following stones. After that the next stone is adding character to the edge including sharpness, ultra sharpness or purposely slightly dulling to adjust the keenness and comfortableness. The kasumi finish left by a Jnat is by its nature a slightly duller edge then the 30k Shapton or the 15k or whatever another finer stone provides but with this, if the blade is SHARP ENOUGH, then the comfortableness is worth the effort.

It is a little bit like having a solid wooden chair with a carved detail on the chair's seat back in you home. Machine carved or pressed wood is just fine and less expensive, but hand carved wood by a craftsman has a certain character that the other does not. A softness to the line, a slightly imperfect aspect that is pleasing to the eye, and often a single chair like this is or becomes a heirloom within a family.

Your kasumi finish is a statement of your craftsmanship. This finish can be manipulated or enhanced by going back to a synthetic stone, removing some or all of the kasumi with a 5k or 8k stone and then back to the Jnat slurry for a whisper of kasumi. You stones are your tools, stretch their possibilities and limts.

Alex

thank you alex. understood.

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Originally Posted by sloanwinters

once i start working up a kasumi edge, i find it difficult to see refinement under magnification. synthetic is easy to watch the previous stones scratches be removed, but with jnats/nagura i eventually reach a 'limit' in what i can see. i definitely see the kasumi get tighter and cleaner but eventually i reach a limit on what i can 'see'. even after using a number of finishing stones/nagura. purhaps the edge gets softer/brighter but i cant tell for sure any more. and i dont know if the next nagura is actually improving the edge, or walking it back.

besides the obvious - shaving - is there any other way to tell if an edge is being improved?

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Sounds like you're looking at the bevel & not the edge ?
If you have a good loupe & light source, daylight is best I find, you can manipulate the viewing angle on the edge & see if you have a complete bevel, a burr or microchips. To look for improvement at the edge you are looking for no or little reflection at any angle. Stropping or even a few strokes on plain water may alter that picture but I'm talking off a slurry. Of course some kind of calibrated hair cutting test helps at end game to see if you should proceed to the shave test.

Has there been a change of the meaning of the word kasumi? Or maybe I misunderstood it from the start, but if that's not the case, kasumi refers to the appearance, polishing, the "haze" appearance, not edge keenness. An aesthetic aspect of steel, not something edge-performance related.
As for the question, the shave and how enjoyable it is, answers it; if the edge feels sharper or better, then what you are doing works.
Compare the edges by comparing the shaves.