green coticule ?

Hi guys - got this one from the bay the other day - was advertised as being a coti ...
but now I see it in the flesh I am not convinced at all
the color seems to be olive-ish , a makes a lot of slurry which is also olive colored (of course) and it has no belgian blue backing
the backing looks very 'rocky' with different shades of rusty brown
it is a very fast cutter on slurry
any idea what this thing can be ?
cheers

ps: I added the creamy 'la Veinette' to compare colors...Attachment 290299Attachment 290300Attachment 290301Attachment 290302Attachment 290303Attachment 290304

Looks atypical for a Coticule to me, but I'm no expert

My first thought wouldn't be a Coticule

Could it be one of those "sud-ouest" stones that are now thought to hail from Italy? I recall them being more ochre with the backside being more regular.

i believe it is a pierre de sud-ouest. I thought they were French. I have two of them at home, and possibly a third, unconfirmed as of yet. I find them to be less fine than a coticule and slightly softer. Some folks in posts have said IIRC they are as low as 4k equivalent, but others IIRC being higher. I would say higher but not as fine as a coticule. I would google them and more info will come up.

Until I knew what a pierre de sud-ouest was, I had thought mine to be a lesser type of Thuringian, or a schwedenstein, the latter which is a mottled German hone.

thanks for the info - could it perhaps be a Thuringian ?
I lapped it and now it looks like this
tried it on a full hollow blade and it passes the hht test right of the stone - I guess the grit must be higher than my Veinette ...
included a pic how the back looks likeAttachment 290309Attachment 290310

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scipio

i believe it is a pierre de sud-ouest. I thought they were French. I have two of them at home, and possibly a third, unconfirmed as of yet. I find them to be less fine than a coticule and slightly softer. Some folks in posts have said IIRC they are as low as 4k equivalent, but others IIRC being higher. I would say higher but not as fine as a coticule. I would google them and more info will come up.

Until I knew what a pierre de sud-ouest was, I had thought mine to be a lesser type of Thuringian, or a schwedenstein, the latter which is a mottled German hone.

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Thanks Scipio - I think you may be right - I sent my reply (hereunder) before I read your text - I scored it on the french bay and the rock was located in the south of France near Lourdes so that makes sense - cheers

I would try the shave test and not just the hht to assess grit equivalent...I think hht can be passed with 4k and lower

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

Could it be one of those "sud-ouest" stones that are now thought to hail from Italy? I recall them being more ochre with the backside being more regular.

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thank you very much for the info ... I think you are spot on!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scipio

I would try the shave test and not just the hht to assess grit equivalent...I think hht can be passed with 4k and lower

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ok didn't know that ... Ill give it a try tonight - cheers

Doesn't remind me much of a Thuringian either in all honesty

I agree about the HHT.

I can pass the HHT coming off the Naniwa 1K, so there's that
The HHT is open for interpretation, it's a valuable tool and I use it a lot but there's a lot of different characteristics in the HHT that I need to judge in my different honing stages

Every one of my hones pass the HHT: 1k, 5k, BBW and Coticule, they need different interpretation coming off each one + after a good stropping

Shaving a bit of arm hair usually tells me much more about how the edge feels than a HHT
Also I use toilet paper to wipe down razors during honing, when I fold a piece over a couple of times and draw my edge through the paper I can also tell and feel how rough or smooth my edge is


TL;DR: The HHT is nice, but after a bevel is set EVERY hone I use passes the HHT even the 1K. If you wanna know the real value / grit of your stone, do a regular honing and finish on your stone (if you like add a layer of tape to create a secondary bevel for finishing to ensure a 'pure' finish from the stone)

No thuringian in my opinion. I would go with Scipio for a pierre du sued ouest. They have different appeearance but your stones reminds me on them.

Maybe way out in left field here, but it kind looks like one of the very old jnats that were (rarely) exported in the early 20th century. @Magpie has an excellent example though IIRC it's a different color. And green is a fairly common color in jnats.

Cheers, Steve

That's no coticule.

Had the shave today
I finished restoring a 1820/1830 Sheffield (G.R.) razor (cast steel - near wedge) so I had to try it out on the 'south west rock'
this thing is a real slurry champ
thick green slurry generated via a diamond plate
set the bevel - no tape - and continued using the dilucot method
finished on running water
dried the stone and rubbed it with a hard Palmolive shaving stick
gave it an extra 30 laps (looks like shaving Parmesan cheese at the start)
shaves arm hair perfectly - HHT 3
50 strokes on linen and 80 on leather brings it up to HHT 4
the shave proved OK - sharp but a bit mellow and felt quite dull on the skin
imo no match for the 'la veinette' coticule
since I have never used this razor b4 I'll give it a try later on my other razors I have in my rotation

ps - thanks for all the feedback and info I received from you guys - there's so many things I am unaware of...I'd never
imagined what this rock might be

Bartds, thank you for sharing your experience with the PdSW. It is fairly similar to my experiences with them. I can get ok shaves with them, but they feel dull. Somewhere between a BBW and coti, closer to BBW. They would have no real place in my progression, since they don't do anything that a good coti can't - perhaps better at bevel setting, but I haven't spent much time in this regard. Typically I would bevel set on synthetic, then go to naturals. Still, like most of my hones, an interesting thing to have. Many of my hones aren't needed, such as the Dalmore Blue, TOS, BBW, some less fine cotis I have, to name a few, but it makes the hobby all the more interesting.

Took the same razor back on the hone - did not dull the edge - just left it as it was after the test shave - this time I created slurry with the 'Pierre de sw' on the 'La Veinette coti' - instant and thick slurry after a few rubs
the color wasn't that olive anymore so I guess the coti left some of its garnets as well - the slurry however dried very fast - needed water after 5 to 6 strokes - in fact no problem as I was using the dilucot method -
30 strokes on slurry - 30 on clear running water - 20 on water with a drop of 'Dreft' ...
took it on linen for 20 and finished on leather for 30
test proved a complete different shave
this time the shave was crisp - even too crisp I'd say... - WTG took all of the whiskers off on the cheeks - something I have never experienced using a wedge (I do have a 1900's Tuckie and a Boker
which are doing the same though but these are extra full hollow singing silver steel blades though) - performed an extra XTG on the cheeks and was left with a BBS...
next was pure horror - took my alum block - gave it a rub on the cheeks - I mostly have a light stinging even after a 3 or 4 pass shave but this time it burned like hell
I know I didn't apply any extra pressure so have no idea what went wrong
I intend to take the razor back on the Pierre de SW and give it some strokes under running water -perhaps this may mellow the edge ?
Could it be that a cast steel razor can be overhoned ? This is the only razor I own that says 'cast steel' on the blade - my others may all be silver steel ? (even my stub tails?)
I'll keep you informed
ps : will add a pic of the razor in SOTD section

Cool looking stone! Indeed thanks for sharring. Those are hard to find here in the States. I have seen more of them on paddles IIRC. Good day!