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I have a nice Wade & Butcher that I just ran on a coticule 30x with pressure and 10x w/o
When I shaved earlier, it gave me a lot of red bumps as in irritation. This is the first time this happens to me with a SR
Is it possible to overhone with a coticule?
Here is a picture of the razor
Attachment 295101
Unlikely. It is much more likely that you have an incomplete bevel. I hone using a loupe and recommend them because it removes a lot of guessing. Give it a good look and check at the tip of the apex to see if your bevel is complete.
Overhoning on a Coticule?
My answer would be no.
As said there are other issues, but overhoning isn't one of them
Not doing enough laps otoh is gonna be worse than doing "too many" laps
I strongly don't believe overhoning on a Coticule is possible, I probably have done 1000 laps on one and never had an issue.
Although a GOOD stropping sessions of at least 100 laps on the linnen will do great things coming off a Coticule ime.
You can create a burr with any stone, coticules included, if they are aggressive enough. 40 laps ain't gonna do it tho .
I had a wedge that no matter what I did "it seemed" , I simply couldn't get it to stop pulling.
Sent it to a friend, turned out I had an uneven wonky spine from my "restoration" efforts and that caused it to sit wrong on the edge while honing.
I didn't have the skill sets to get it right, still learning.
When in doubt I send it to a pro, but maybe that's not the best way to go about it.
30 with 'pressure'? That would do it?
Pressure is always a tricky on to try to discuss, because it has no defined scale.
Over-honed? No. Thirty laps not enough. Get back to me after 200. Watch the pressure, then watch the water’s edge. Be sure to watch drmatt357 four parts on Coticules on YouTube.
Exactly my thoughts, Rez. I know what TOO much pressure does!Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Makes a saw out of a razor :hmmm:
Yes, but as said, in you case, your bevel is not fully set. Looking at your razor photo enlarged, one can clearly see the bevel is not fully set or at least you are not honing to the edge at the heel and toe.
Your heel needs correction, the edge ends at the stabilizer most probably keeping the heel half of the edge off the stone. The slight smile on the razor will require a rolling X stroke to hone the edge fully.
Magnification, ink and learning how to tell when the bevel is fully set will help you. Post (Second Try at Honing, by PCM), in honing forum is filled with great photos that will show you what to look for.
For setting a bevel on a coticule use a thick slurry or better yet a 1K. Over-honing is an overused term, new honers that are concerned about it are generally under-honing, a lack of a fully bevel set is usually the case.
Nice razor.
It is a good thread.
https://straightrazorpalace.com/honi...ggestions.html
First of all I enjoy participating in a forum where so much knowledge is available and willingly given out to others.
Ok, I reset the bevel on a fine DMT and then ran it 130 times on the coticule until it started pulling a little. I did this with no slurry. Then I increased the water and did another 20 laps.
After that, I stropped it with CrOx about 50 laps and then 100 on the leather side.
Here are the pictures. I may still need to do some work on the edge and heel. I notice that the edge at the center of the blade is narrower than on the sides. Does this mean I have to put pressure with my finger in the middle of the spine as I am running it through the coticule?Attachment 295120Attachment 295121
I'm sure some more detailed answers will follow but if you are not confident wit the process no harm in sending it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmitzoom
No. An uneven bevel width is a product of an uneven grind and is not something that you are doing and normally of not much consequence.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmitzoom
Toss my 2 cents in. Frowning toward the pivot and stabilizer issues are going to happen.
I would recommend to put it aside and go with something better?
Easily fixed as you gain knowledge on easier things.
JMO
Are you using tape?
What other stones do you have available to you?
Is this the first razor you have honed?
"Does this mean I have to put pressure with my finger in the middle of the spine as I am running it through the coticule?"
No, no excessive pressure, this razor needs repair, this is not a standard honing. The heel on the back side is hitting the stabilizer (Green Arrow) and you are adding pressure and an aggressive diamond plate to try to force the heel on the stone, but it can’t, so you are grinding away the middle of the razor, (Red Arrow), if you continue you will grind the razor edge to an S shaped.
The razor is warped, on the other side (Stamped side) you can see where the spine has been ground flat above the heel to past mid-way to the toe. This warp is typical of old Sheffield razors. You must learn to perfect the rolling X stroke, to compensate for the warp, (concave on one side, convex on the other) or you will needlessly grind away much of the blade width and the spine.
With the rolling X you will drop the heel off the stone, to hone the middle on the concave side and lift the heel on the convex side. The amount of drop and lift is only a millimeter or two, that is what you must learn, how much, do not use pressure it is a fluid stroke.
Do not use a diamond plate, you are doing more damage than good. There are many good videos and post on the rolling X.
Correct the heel as shown in the post Oz referred to, the corrected heel should be shaped much like the curve shown by the blue circle. Notice how the reshaping raises the end of the stabilizer and the edge ends well forward of the stabilizer, taking it completely out of contact with the stone. Now the razor will lay flatter on the stone and the whole edge from the heel to past the toe can be honed in a single pass.
Put a layer of tape on the spine, Ink the bevels with colored ink and practice the rolling X stroke on the coticule without slurry, until you can remove ink from the heel to the toe in one lap. The coticule will remove very little metal if no pressure or slurry is used.
Then and only then put 2 layers of tape on the spine and set the bevel on a 1k. If this is your first honing, you may want to start with a flatter, straighter razor and send this one out for honing.
Attachment 295132
as far as tape, I just use clear scotch tape to protect the spine from further honing ware
other stones 3k, 8, 2 coticules and 2 sided dmt (coarse/fine)
great analysis. I know I have a long way to go still, but I'm working on it.
what a great review and analysis. Just goes to show you how much I need to learn, but I am willing to put in the time and effort it takes.
Thank you
As mentioned in an earlier post, you should not take Sheffield steel anywhere near a DMT.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmitzoom
Certainly it is evident that the razor has been reground or abraded, particularly on the back side.
Gonna be a labor of love......
U need to take care of the stabilizer, its causing a frown already. Use rolling x strokes when honing that thing, no more circles....please.!
Sigh! It will be allright! :ziplip:.......Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
I’m going to throw out a suggestion. There’s no shame in salvaging the razor by sending it out and taking on learning honing with something less challenging. Old Wade and Buthchers have a reputation of having uneven wear and some issues. Maybe send this one out and get your legs under yourself with something less complicated. That would be my suggestion.
Attachment 295527Attachment 295528
Many thanks to Euclid440 who not only did a very detailed analysis of the problem, but also helped correct it. This is the result. I lost some width but it will be back to being a beautiful smooth and consistent shaver.
Thanks again.
Is it just the angle or did you lose 1/8 in the process?
