I shave with SR daily, and am in an internal debate of buying stones(no clue to which) or sending razors out to be honed. I guess my question to all is if you had to do it again which way would you go, and why?
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I shave with SR daily, and am in an internal debate of buying stones(no clue to which) or sending razors out to be honed. I guess my question to all is if you had to do it again which way would you go, and why?
I would send it out. And, for my part, I would learn what I need to maintain its edge, and how to do so.
Specifics? A nice, used, Russian shell strop, and an 8" x 12" piece of "hard felt" with some CrOx. The videos are online.
send it out. You really need a perfect edge for the first 6 or 8 months so you know what is right. Now if it's been that long or more, and you have done 200+ shaves, then you could do as suggested above. Maintaining is a big part in keeping your razor keen. You could go as far as picking up a Barber hone and doing just 4 or 5 laps too. But one wrong move on a stone can set you back and your sending it off.
I also suggest just sending out and getting honed. See what type of edge you are getting as well. If it is finished on a 12k stone then you can buy a stone at 12k for around 80$ and another stone to keep it flat for about 40$. Then you could use the 12k (after it has been flattened) to touch up your razor whenever it is starting to pull. 12k stone will make edge go long time and when the 12k doesn't work anymore you can send it out to be rehoned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face
If your goal is to shave with straight razors regularly (at least twice a week), you may eventually want to learn to hone.
Keep in mind though that like many things in straight shaving (stropping, and the shave itself), small mistakes in honing may too ruin an otherwise perfect shave.
IMO, honing is thus one of the three disciplines that a straight shaver has to come to grips with.
To maintain an existing edge, a Naniwa 12,000 grit synthetic stone should serve you well for a long time.
Should the razor pick up some nicks that affect the shave, or if in the beginning your budding honing skills should let you down and you want to get your razor back to top condition, you can still send it out to have it professionally honed.
Ideally, you should also have a second razor (not too expensive - in case you should make mistakes) in your rotation. This will allow you to compare your honing against the other razor and you will still have one razor left to shave with if you should send the other one out to have it honed professionally. There are some very capable razors out there (preowned and new) that can be had for around $110 new (e.g. an Aust ⅝ with acrylic scales), or considerably less pre-owned.
I have about 60 straight razors in my rotation now and have maybe sent razors twice in the beginning to have them professionally honed. After that I learnt by trial and error.
To me it’s all about the journey and the things that we may learn along the way.
Enjoy yours...
B.
I've honed my own razors since shortly after diving into the sport, and I've enjoyed the skill necessary to create a smooth, sharp edge myself nearly as much as I enjoy shaving with the finished product. So, yes, I would always take the very same path given a do-over.
However, I had the benefit of some very expert one-on-one training with a gentleman who hones razors professionally. Without someone pointing out what I needed to correct and why, I may have developed bad/poor habits, HAD, and/or who knows what, ultimately creating a potentially costly, frustrating, and lengthy learning curve.
I still do not own the first hone I had my eyes on thanks to a mentor's valuable experiences with all manner of razor steel across numerous types of hones.
You need to decide if honing razors for yourself is something that you will enjoy doing or not. For me, this was never a question.
Hmmm. I think if I were to do it all over, knowing what I know now.
I think I would not join this giant group of enablers.
I would not have bought and sold many many razors.
I would have still honed my own. Mail service here is crazy slow. Oh wait, that’s how I got here and got tangleed up with this bunch. I came here to learn how to hone. I did that. Initially it was the forum and some of Glen’s videos. Then I went to a meet. That’s when the game changed. Hands on learning made leaps and bounds for me. I would also stick with the Naniwa/Chosera line. 1K, 3K, 8K and 12K. After I learned to hone and restore I became an enabler.
Seriously though. You can send a lot of razors out for the cost of hones. You could buy one good barbers hone or a Naniwa 12K for touch ups or maintenance and be good forever. However, if we all just did what was needed then two razors, one brush, one soap and a barbers hone. Minimalist or collector or hobbyist, we are all here. You just need to decide on your approach.
How long have you been using a straight razor? How many razors do you own? Are you going to be acquiring more straights (see RAD)? How involved in this can you see yourself getting? Nothing wrong with having two razors and sending them out a couple of times a year for honing. To really answer your question we need more information. I have learned to hone my own. I have over 200 razors(RAD) 50 or so hones, a dozen strops and countless dollars spent on this hobby. I would absolutely do it again. Good luck.
Hone my own. If you don’t like to sharpen things then send them out but if I had to do it all over again I would hone my own as this has been one of the most rewarding aspects of this hobby. I would not want to miss out on it and I went the natural way right out of the gates. I am still here shaving with a straight razor that I honed myself on an all natural progression. I believe had I chose a synthetic route or sent out my razors I would have given this hobby up long ago.
There is a lot of good advice here. I did what RezDog did for different reasons -- I like to dive all the way into the deep end. Having said that, and spent the money on stones, I still can't hone an edge like the pros can and I prefer (when needed) to send the really nice ones out to people who do it every day. Given a rotation of 12-15 razors and the fact that I shave with DE also, I haven't sent one out for 2 years.
It is my opinion that too many beginning SR shavers jump into honing because they "want" to, not because they "need" to. If I had it to do again, I'd wait a few years before buying stones, and I'd concentrate on learning (from my face) how to shave well and what a really good edge done by a professional feels like and shaves like.
As said a Naniwia 12k will do everything you need right now and keep you shaving until you ding the razor, even then if can remove a chip, with a little experience.
Learning to maintain a razor will let you know if you want or need to buy a full set of stones. You would only need a 1k, King, a 4k Norton or Naniwia and your 12k and you could do any restoration or maintenance.
As said, hands on learning is invaluable, will speed your journey and keep you from buying stones you don’t need. Guys I have taught have almost to a man have said, It’s the little things, that you just don’t get from a video, that make all the difference…
For me there was no question I was going to maintain my own razors from the very get go. I would recommend to learn to hone immediately; even if while learning to shave with a straight (yep, don't let anyone tell you its too much to handle, it is not). It is fun and rewarding. As has been said, a mentor or two is invaluable and having a pro honed razor or two to have as a benchmark and to shave with while learning is important. I went the hardest route in my opinion with naturals but would not change a thing (well, I waited too long to reach out for help but that's my nature).
I'm still learning after almost 4 years and enjoy the journey immensely.
Hone on.
Are you in this for just the sr shave, or the whole sr hobby? I jumped in from the beginning. But for nearly six weeks before buying anything I watch all the videos I could. When it came time to buy I knew what razors, stones, brushes, strops I wanted. My story is written out elsewhere. In short, if you’re serious about the hobby start honing at some level straight away.
To me it makes sense for virtually everyone to be able to maintain their razors sharp. It's not hard and I believe most people would have no trouble doing it. If the razor gets damaged or deteriorates to a point where it needs more work/skill then it's easier and cheaper to have someone else with the skills and equipment do that.
Any number of finishing stones would work for maintenance. Even a pasted strop or lapping film can maintain a razor sharp for a year or few. I was able to use and keep sharp a single razor with only stropping for almost a year before I had to take it to a hone. It wasn't any special razor either - a good quality vintage 5/8 full hollow from Solingen.
I was honing knives n such, by the time I was 8 yrs. old.
Always had a fascination for all things sharp. For the most part, I'm self taught. The guys here, taught me about the proper hones to use, to make my edges the best they could be. Smooth n Comfortable. I own a full set of Naniwas, dont even use them anymore, I love the Naturals more.
Take up maintaining, and honing your own. It is, very rewarding, though it takes time and patience.
Hook up with a mentor that can give you some hands on experience. It'll lessen the learning curve greatly
As you can see there are lots of opinions on what is best. What is best is up to the person. Maybe your a hands on kinda guy that does everything for yourself. Or your someone who manages to get by when it comes to manual things, or maybe you can do anytype of stuff and would rather pay to have it done. Deside on what your goal is in this hobby. Just shaving or go to the extreme and learn to restore and collect. Lots of other choices in this hobby inbetween those two option. I think that is the first step.
I was fortunate to be gifted a combo coticule and a Japanese shell strop by my dad even before I had a straight of my own so I was motivated to learn how to hone and strop when I got my first razor. Not everyone starts out in that situation.
It took me a lot of trial and error and hours of watching honing videos by Glen and Lynn and others before I actually felt I had a razor that was shave ready. I studied all the threads on SRP and the coticule forums that dealt with honing and stropping and tried to digest what made sense to me.
When my razors (I had 2 by then) felt like they needed more than I had been able to do up to that point, I bought a Norton 4000/8000 since that seemed to be what the information I was reading said I would need to tone up the edge before going to the coticule. And, it was what I could afford at the time.
Later, when I won a couple of auctions on eBay and had to reset bevels on several razors, I bought a DMT 1000 and more recently a SHAPTON KUROMAKU PROFESSIONAL CERAMIC WHETSTONE. I still use the DMT 1000 and a coarser DMT to lap my stones and to work on chipped edges and wonky bevels, but the Shapton can reset a bevel very quickly without overly scratching up the metal.
I now have about 30 razors in my rotation and a Oozuku stone with Nagura and a Vermio for finishing. That’s not much compared to many of the more serious collector-shaver members of SRP, but it’s where I am comfortable.
Each one of us has travelled a different path to get where we are in this hobby and had different influences along the way. I’m pretty sure that if I had stopped lurking on SRP earlier and joined the conversation and gone to a meet up, some of my choices would have been different, but like I mentioned earlier, I feel good about where I am and I certainly enjoy all aspects of straight razor shaving and maintenance.
All I can suggest is do your homework, ask a lot of questions, think twice before you pull the trigger on a major purchase and have fun.
if I had to do it all over again I would buy a decent koppa (jnat) some nagura(botan, tenyjou, Meijro) and a matching tomo. 10 mins on the stone and im done I would go straight to stropping. I made the mistake of buying a shapton glass set and now i rarely use them.
I can’t imagine not honing my own at this point. The main reason is that I touch up early. The moment I detect any degradation I give it a couple passes on a stone and were right where we were.
When I started out I purchased razors from guys that sold them as shave ready. This gave me an idea of what shave ready was. If I was you as your a beginner get some to hone your razor there are plenty of members that would like to hone your razor to give you a helping hand. Then learn to maintain that edge and I would strongly recommend you do that with the 12 k speciality .
If you have never honed a razor it’s best to send at least one out to a reputable honing person so you will have a benchmark for what an acceptable edge is supposed to be.
Find a mentor who knows their way around all aspects of wet shaving.
1. Learn to shave (This includes face prep, learning a proper lather, stropping, and shaving. That is a LOT to learn, normally around 30 shaves)
2. Learn to touch up a razor. (There are many ways to skin this cat: barber hone, pasted strops, and high "grit" stones 8k+)
3. Lastly learn to hone because you have NOW built a proper foundation of knowledge of wet shaving. Honing simply is not for all people.
If I was stateside, I would send them out. It can be frustrating learning to hone and shave at the same time. Like rezdog, I had few options besides teaching myself.
I used to hone for a luthier. He always sharpened his own chisels etc & his razors always came back to me for touchups at very regular & short intervals. They were always in pristine condition & I almost felt guilty charging him.
My point is, even very skilful people may choose to have their razors honed by others. It's a worth while pursuit but you may choose to spend that money & time elsewhere.
To the OP's initial query, honing for me was part of the excitement of straight-razor shaving from the start. That said, if I had to do it all over again, I would start with a couple of beater straight razors to learn honing with, saving the decent stuff for later, once I had cut my teeth on honing the beaters. As to a complete progression for beaters, I would suggest one of the following:
Water stones: DMT coarse/fine combo for lapping and chip removal, Suehiro 1k/3k combo, for bevel-setting, a coticule, and a piece of Welsh purple slate.
Oil stones: 6"x2" coarse/fine Norton Crystalon, for dressing the Arkansas stones and chip removal, 6"x2" soft/black hard Arkansas combo, for bevel-setting and finishing. A red/black pasted loom strop would also be helpful off the black hard Arkansas stone.
This is exactly what I did. I'd search eBay for razors that looked servicable but not great. Some were questionable. Then I'd go through the effort to try to hone them. The best were shortened blades where someone obviously chipped or cracked the tip and shortened the blade to fix it. The steel was often in good shape but could not be sold for much because of its condition. These were good to learn on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brontosaurus
I can't improve on the excellent advice you've already gotten, but THIS above, all day long-keep a benchmark razor honed by a known "honemeister" and practice on others until you can equal or even do better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnatcat
After all, few hone-meisters have the time to really tweak your edge to the nth degree like you will learn to do, possibly on some magical natural you fall in love with after some experience on synthetics.
Enjoy the journey regardless of the route you take-there are many roads to sharp!
I will never recommend any natural stones to a person learning to hone. Too many variables as ALL natural stones are different, some vastly different. If you learn to hone on synthetic stones like Naniwa, Norton, or Shapton...you can go anywhere and hone on the same stones....they will work the same as yours. You can ask particular questions and we can more accurately help you trouble shoot issues.
Lots of stones work great for knives, however aren't the optimum for straight razors.
Make a razor meet within driving distance, you can meet some sharp fellows at them who know a thing or two about razors.
Would you be interested in selling those naniwas?Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
I am going to be honing my own blades, but sending the Dovo out for honing (need to find someone). Now what stones do I need to buy? I did get permission from the boss. should I go glass? should I go with a set? so many choices, and so little time.
Lots of info on this on the forum but,
MHO, the Naniwas are best for a standard hone set. You could go glass if you got money to burn. Ive not used them but they get great reviews. In the Naniwas, the 1k pro is one of the best for setting bevel. Then go with the superstones. 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k. That is more than enough for basic honing. Go all out and buy the entire set if ya want. Lower grits and grits inbetween. But they are not needed very often. Pick up a GOK20k if ya want to spend some money as its a great synthetic finisher, but the 12k will be enough until you get lots and lots of honing learned.
Natural stones are great! But IMO not what a begginner should be trying to learn. As with your first question, you will get many different answers to this one as well. And keep in mind that honing takes a long time to learn to do well. You can get lucky now and then, but for consistancy of honing, its years in the learning.
This setup will get you honing and if you collect and restore razors it will still last you a life time. Or u til you buy a different set of hones.
It's probably a little easier if you stick with the same line of hones for a progression. I've been very happy with naniwa 1k,5k,8k,12k for almost 10 years now. If you're going to start with maintaining your already sharp razors you can do the 12k and then expand with the coarser hones for more significant work.
Or you can do Shapton since you're mentioning glass. There are number of good options and any of them will work as you put in the time.
Just a friendly reminder of the rules to keep any sales talk to the appropriate forums or private message.Quote:
Originally Posted by Face
Carry on gents.
https://shavelibrary.com/w/SRP_rules...s.2C_and_sales
Also, PM is best for that, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55